5 ms·

Why? It's pretty evident at this point that the whole Labour anti-Semitism thing was a cheap way to generate clicks and tank Corbyn-led Labour. Criticism of Isr

by kunai 6y ago

Why? It's pretty evident at this point that the whole Labour anti-Semitism thing was a cheap way to generate clicks and tank Corbyn-led Labour. Criticism of Israel's genuinely awful human rights record is not anti-Semitic.

monoclechris 6y ago
I think it is very unlikely the Equality and Human Rights Commission will come to this same conclusion.
mft_ 6y ago
It wasn’t just related to criticism of Israel. There were plenty of examples [0] of unpleasant statements coming from people on a Labour party platform or at their events, which were not dealt with sufficiently quickly or seriously by the Labour Party. They could’ve made this problem go away by just having a proper policy and dealing with these cases swiftly and appropriately. They didn’t. [0] https://news.sky.com/story/12-shocking-claims-of-abuse-in-leaked-labour-antisemitism-dossier-11879053 https://news.sky.com/story/12-shocking-claims-of-abuse-in-le...
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Oh good, another English dossier. Those are entertaining! One notes that at that link there are no specific accusations against Corbyn. It's all "Corbyn-supporting groups" and "concerns about Corbyn's leadership". Seems a bit thin! We would have seen this fiction in USA too, if voters would have just forgotten that Bernie is actually Jewish.
  - mft_ 6y ago
    No one said Corbyn himself was anti-Semitic - just that there was anti-Semitism within the Labour Party, and it wasn’t dealt with sufficiently during his tenure as leader. It’s not unreasonable to hold a leader somewhat responsible - it’s not like Trump isn’t criticised (rightly) for things done by other people on his watch.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      ITT, one reads "...anti-semitism in the UK Labour Party... culminated with the recent leader Corbyn..." There aren't too many ways to interpret that. It is interesting to imagine holding the national leader of a political party responsible for her or his own actions, let alone the antics of other party members. Whatever UK has done to make this possible, we should do. Only, I suspect it will turn into yet another double standard.
      - mft_ 6y ago
        I interpret to chronologically: that the rise of Corbyn to leadership of Labour revitalised some segments of supporters, some of whom had anti-Semitic views. I don’t for a second think that he personally was anti-Semitic, but some of his supporters and political allies probably are, and his prominence led to their greater prominence also.
        pydry 6y ago
        There was a mountain of accusations of anti-semitism that boiled down to "she said something anti-zionist which we think implies she is anti-semitic if you look at it in the right light". Meanwhile, over in actual Israel they're busy setting up an apartheid state and enacting race based policies. It's simply not possible to be consistently anti racist without being accused of anti-semitism. Rebecca Long Bailey getting fired is simply the latest illustration of that.
    - mrow84 6y ago
      > No one said Corbyn himself was anti-Semitic https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/05/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/05/jeremy-corbyn...
      - mft_ 6y ago
        Sure; I meant in this discussion on HN. Sorry for not being clear.
    - 6y ago
- s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
  Yes, and there is also now proof of sabotage by the right of the Labour party specifically in order to create the narrative you are repeating. "The 860-page document claims that “an abnormal intensity of factional opposition to the party leader” had “inhibited the proper functioning of the Labour Party bureaucracy” and contributed to “a litany of mistakes” in dealing with antisemitism, which it admits was a serious problem in the party." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-r... Meanwhile, the Tory party gets a free pass on their rampant Antisemitism and stoking hatred of immigrants.
  - mft_ 6y ago
    Whether or not the draft dossier of uncertain providence is all legit, I agree it looks like Labour’s issues ran deep. However, I’d still argue there’s an issue around Corbyn’s leadership. You’re the leader of Labour; your party is being criticised in very damaging ways and (for the sake of argument) it’s because your internal processes are being sabotaged. What do you do? Maybe... look into it? Fix it? Change the people responsible if that’s what it takes? At best, it was weak leadership. At worst, it was a reluctance to discipline political allies.
    - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
      The Labour leaks prove that Labour did try to fix it - Corbyn should've booted all the neo-liberals out of his party via mandatory reselections. Unfortunately, he's too decent to play dirty - but that's what's needed right now. I think it's pretty clear that Rachel Reeves, Ian Austin et al are not allies when they are funnelling money and faking ad spend, and leaking lies to the press specifically to stop labour from winning. (I'm not referring to all claims of antisemitism here as lies by the way, but many of the stories that broke in the Guardian were later redacted as bunk)
      - cynicalkane 6y ago
        I hate this sort of defense-by-attack. Corbyn needed to defend Labor from anti-semitism by... eliminating neoliberals? How about by eliminating anti-semites? It's like, what are the priorities here?

by kunai 6y ago

monoclechris 6y ago

I think it is very unlikely the Equality and Human Rights Commission will come to this same conclusion.

mft_ 6y ago

It wasn’t just related to criticism of Israel. There were plenty of examples [0] of unpleasant statements coming from people on a Labour party platform or at their events, which were not dealt with sufficiently quickly or seriously by the Labour Party. They could’ve made this problem go away by just having a proper policy and dealing with these cases swiftly and appropriately. They didn’t. [0] https://news.sky.com/story/12-shocking-claims-of-abuse-in-leaked-labour-antisemitism-dossier-11879053 https://news.sky.com/story/12-shocking-claims-of-abuse-in-le...

jessaustin 6y ago
Oh good, another English dossier. Those are entertaining! One notes that at that link there are no specific accusations against Corbyn. It's all "Corbyn-supporting groups" and "concerns about Corbyn's leadership". Seems a bit thin! We would have seen this fiction in USA too, if voters would have just forgotten that Bernie is actually Jewish.
- mft_ 6y ago
  No one said Corbyn himself was anti-Semitic - just that there was anti-Semitism within the Labour Party, and it wasn’t dealt with sufficiently during his tenure as leader. It’s not unreasonable to hold a leader somewhat responsible - it’s not like Trump isn’t criticised (rightly) for things done by other people on his watch.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    ITT, one reads "...anti-semitism in the UK Labour Party... culminated with the recent leader Corbyn..." There aren't too many ways to interpret that. It is interesting to imagine holding the national leader of a political party responsible for her or his own actions, let alone the antics of other party members. Whatever UK has done to make this possible, we should do. Only, I suspect it will turn into yet another double standard.
    - mft_ 6y ago
      I interpret to chronologically: that the rise of Corbyn to leadership of Labour revitalised some segments of supporters, some of whom had anti-Semitic views. I don’t for a second think that he personally was anti-Semitic, but some of his supporters and political allies probably are, and his prominence led to their greater prominence also.
      - pydry 6y ago
        There was a mountain of accusations of anti-semitism that boiled down to "she said something anti-zionist which we think implies she is anti-semitic if you look at it in the right light". Meanwhile, over in actual Israel they're busy setting up an apartheid state and enacting race based policies. It's simply not possible to be consistently anti racist without being accused of anti-semitism. Rebecca Long Bailey getting fired is simply the latest illustration of that.
  - mrow84 6y ago
    > No one said Corbyn himself was anti-Semitic https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/05/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/05/jeremy-corbyn...
    - mft_ 6y ago
      Sure; I meant in this discussion on HN. Sorry for not being clear.
  - 6y ago
s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
Yes, and there is also now proof of sabotage by the right of the Labour party specifically in order to create the narrative you are repeating. "The 860-page document claims that “an abnormal intensity of factional opposition to the party leader” had “inhibited the proper functioning of the Labour Party bureaucracy” and contributed to “a litany of mistakes” in dealing with antisemitism, which it admits was a serious problem in the party." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-r... Meanwhile, the Tory party gets a free pass on their rampant Antisemitism and stoking hatred of immigrants.
- mft_ 6y ago
  Whether or not the draft dossier of uncertain providence is all legit, I agree it looks like Labour’s issues ran deep. However, I’d still argue there’s an issue around Corbyn’s leadership. You’re the leader of Labour; your party is being criticised in very damaging ways and (for the sake of argument) it’s because your internal processes are being sabotaged. What do you do? Maybe... look into it? Fix it? Change the people responsible if that’s what it takes? At best, it was weak leadership. At worst, it was a reluctance to discipline political allies.
  - s0l1dsnak3123 6y ago
    The Labour leaks prove that Labour did try to fix it - Corbyn should've booted all the neo-liberals out of his party via mandatory reselections. Unfortunately, he's too decent to play dirty - but that's what's needed right now. I think it's pretty clear that Rachel Reeves, Ian Austin et al are not allies when they are funnelling money and faking ad spend, and leaking lies to the press specifically to stop labour from winning. (I'm not referring to all claims of antisemitism here as lies by the way, but many of the stories that broke in the Guardian were later redacted as bunk)
    - cynicalkane 6y ago
      I hate this sort of defense-by-attack. Corbyn needed to defend Labor from anti-semitism by... eliminating neoliberals? How about by eliminating anti-semites? It's like, what are the priorities here?