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(Re-posting on this thread) What a bummer! As an iOS user, I was eagerly looking forward to this feature, wanting to tell others about it and how the upgrade t

by AnonHP 6y ago

(Re-posting on this thread) What a bummer! As an iOS user, I was eagerly looking forward to this feature, wanting to tell others about it and how the upgrade to iOS 14 would be worth it just to clearly expose apps that want to track users. I already have ad tracking limited in my settings (Settings->Privacy->Limit Ad Tracking), but that was something I had to explicitly turn on, and there’s no notice on which apps use the ID for advertising.

novok 6y ago
Well it is effectively the same thing what your doing, I think it applies to every single app either way.
gowld 6y ago
The only reason you are so desperate for this feature is that Apple refuses to let you install a firewall on the phone you supposedly own. Otherwise you could be running pihole today.
- untog 6y ago
  Not really. Pi Hole is great but it comes much later in the process and is an inexact process trying to filter out internet requests. The filter Apple has stops apps from being able to get the identifying data in the first place. It's a lot better.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    PiHole only works insofar as tracking requests use a different domain. It’s great, but it’s not a panacea.
- iainmerrick 6y ago
  You could do that, maybe, but the typical non-technical user could not.
- bacondude3 6y ago
  iPhones can easily have a Pi-Hole equivalent: https://nextdns.io/ https://nextdns.io/
- corobo 6y ago
  How’ve you got it set up on not Apple? Sounds cool
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pwinnski 6y ago
  This would be different from a pi-hole, which counts entirely on separate domains.
  - zo1 6y ago
    I imagine Pihole is a just an example to illustrate a point. Once you have access to all network/http traffic, you can do an amazing amount of harm to ad-networks' ability to track and send you unwanted content. Imagine that kind of full access under the user's control. Not only that but you can cache/save/transform/manipulate how you receive the content you request on your device. That's why the conspiracy-theorist in me thinks the tech companies have been pushing for HTTPs so heavily this past decade. It's "privacy" enabling sure, but at the same time makes it next to impossible to stop ad content and to break up tech data silos.
- aleppe7766 6y ago
  No need for pi-hole, there’s an app for that and does exactly the same job.
mmacvicarprett 6y ago
It does not expose anything, in the way it was designed every single app needs it.
ape4 6y ago
What about using Facebook in a browser like Firefox (not the app).
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  That's much worse because other visits can be tracked as well through to fingerprinting. The app (at least on iOS) is actually more controlled due to measures like these.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Disagreed. The app has access to a much more granular device fingerprint containing carrier name, battery status, accelerometer/magnetometer data (I've seen at least one nasty company exfiltrate such data in their SDK), etc which can directly be correlated by data collected by the malicious Facebook SDK that contaminates pretty much every other mainstream app. In contrast, the mapping between browser fingerprint and device fingerprint isn't a 1-to-1 and is a bit more fuzzy.
ogre_codes 6y ago
It is a bit of a bummer, but people have lived without it for more than a decade, they will survive another few months. Or you could just help your friends disable it manually.
jeffasinger 6y ago
I (sort of) work in the advertising industry. I'm really excited to see this change, but the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it, and it would have been very chaotic with lots of money on the line. I think waiting until early 2021 is better than having anything that depends on ad revenue see a huge dropoff until the industry figures things out.
- bathtub365 6y ago
  I find it very hard to have sympathy for anyone working in the advertising industry. The same goes anyone that's sold out their users, compromising their privacy by tracking them no matter where they go, and psychologically manipulating them.
- JoshTriplett 6y ago
  > the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it That's an excellent reason to do it.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rebelos 6y ago
    That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical this is the right way to go about dealing with it. A more sensible system would give users the choice between accepting targeted ads or paying a fee for the service.
    - JoshTriplett 6y ago
      I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of ad-based apps (without IAP of some kind) make less than $0.50 lifetime revenue on average from 90+% of users. Some quick checking suggests that the median total revenue for most apps is close to $0. Most apps would probably win out if they said "turns out ads don't work, would you be willing to pay $0.99". Even if they lost users, they'd gain revenue. Whenever an unsustainable free service comes out on HN, and it's something people actually want, there's often a comment saying "this seems unsustainable, so I don't think I can count on it; please let us pay you". The same thing applies to apps.
pwinnski 6y ago
It's Settings->Privacy->Advertising (at the bottom)->Limit Ad Tracking, and looking that up reminds me that it's been a while since I last reset my advertising identifier, another option on that same page.
akmarinov 6y ago
If it helps, Apple only starts to mandate support for the latest OS in February to April every year, so all of the apps that are tracking you wouldn’t have updated until then anyway.

by AnonHP 6y ago

novok 6y ago

Well it is effectively the same thing what your doing, I think it applies to every single app either way.

gowld 6y ago

The only reason you are so desperate for this feature is that Apple refuses to let you install a firewall on the phone you supposedly own. Otherwise you could be running pihole today.

untog 6y ago
Not really. Pi Hole is great but it comes much later in the process and is an inexact process trying to filter out internet requests. The filter Apple has stops apps from being able to get the identifying data in the first place. It's a lot better.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  PiHole only works insofar as tracking requests use a different domain. It’s great, but it’s not a panacea.
iainmerrick 6y ago
You could do that, maybe, but the typical non-technical user could not.
bacondude3 6y ago
iPhones can easily have a Pi-Hole equivalent: https://nextdns.io/ https://nextdns.io/
corobo 6y ago
How’ve you got it set up on not Apple? Sounds cool
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pwinnski 6y ago
This would be different from a pi-hole, which counts entirely on separate domains.
- zo1 6y ago
  I imagine Pihole is a just an example to illustrate a point. Once you have access to all network/http traffic, you can do an amazing amount of harm to ad-networks' ability to track and send you unwanted content. Imagine that kind of full access under the user's control. Not only that but you can cache/save/transform/manipulate how you receive the content you request on your device. That's why the conspiracy-theorist in me thinks the tech companies have been pushing for HTTPs so heavily this past decade. It's "privacy" enabling sure, but at the same time makes it next to impossible to stop ad content and to break up tech data silos.
aleppe7766 6y ago
No need for pi-hole, there’s an app for that and does exactly the same job.

mmacvicarprett 6y ago

It does not expose anything, in the way it was designed every single app needs it.

ape4 6y ago

What about using Facebook in a browser like Firefox (not the app).

GekkePrutser 6y ago
That's much worse because other visits can be tracked as well through to fingerprinting. The app (at least on iOS) is actually more controlled due to measures like these.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Disagreed. The app has access to a much more granular device fingerprint containing carrier name, battery status, accelerometer/magnetometer data (I've seen at least one nasty company exfiltrate such data in their SDK), etc which can directly be correlated by data collected by the malicious Facebook SDK that contaminates pretty much every other mainstream app. In contrast, the mapping between browser fingerprint and device fingerprint isn't a 1-to-1 and is a bit more fuzzy.

ogre_codes 6y ago

It is a bit of a bummer, but people have lived without it for more than a decade, they will survive another few months. Or you could just help your friends disable it manually.

jeffasinger 6y ago

I (sort of) work in the advertising industry. I'm really excited to see this change, but the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it, and it would have been very chaotic with lots of money on the line. I think waiting until early 2021 is better than having anything that depends on ad revenue see a huge dropoff until the industry figures things out.

bathtub365 6y ago
I find it very hard to have sympathy for anyone working in the advertising industry. The same goes anyone that's sold out their users, compromising their privacy by tracking them no matter where they go, and psychologically manipulating them.
JoshTriplett 6y ago
> the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it That's an excellent reason to do it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rebelos 6y ago
  That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical this is the right way to go about dealing with it. A more sensible system would give users the choice between accepting targeted ads or paying a fee for the service.
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
    I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of ad-based apps (without IAP of some kind) make less than $0.50 lifetime revenue on average from 90+% of users. Some quick checking suggests that the median total revenue for most apps is close to $0. Most apps would probably win out if they said "turns out ads don't work, would you be willing to pay $0.99". Even if they lost users, they'd gain revenue. Whenever an unsustainable free service comes out on HN, and it's something people actually want, there's often a comment saying "this seems unsustainable, so I don't think I can count on it; please let us pay you". The same thing applies to apps.

pwinnski 6y ago

It's Settings->Privacy->Advertising (at the bottom)->Limit Ad Tracking, and looking that up reminds me that it's been a while since I last reset my advertising identifier, another option on that same page.

akmarinov 6y ago

If it helps, Apple only starts to mandate support for the latest OS in February to April every year, so all of the apps that are tracking you wouldn’t have updated until then anyway.