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Because the parks have people in them not wearing masks?

by AlanSE 6y ago

vorpalhex 6y ago
You don't need masks if you are maintaining distance of 6 feet. Masks are for situations where distance can not be maintained such as trains and stores.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
  You need masks indoors even if you are able to maintain a distance of 6 feet.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  Evidence suggests that aerosols can remain in the air for minutes after being placed there by another non-masked individual. You could pass through the aerosol and inhale. Masks make sense outside too, at least in some circumstances.
  - JabavuAdams 6y ago
    Considering that the risk of transmission seems to depend on how long you are inhaling shared air from an infected person, and their viral load, I don't think it makes sense to worry about intermittently going through someone else's exhaust plume. I use a mask outside if I'm on a narrow sidewalk, but otherwise, I don't think there's much point. My favourite thing is the people who wear a mask over the mouth, but not the nose. Like worst of both worlds.
    - outworlder 6y ago
      > Considering that the risk of transmission seems to depend on how long you are inhaling shared air from an infected person, and their viral load You have a lot of faith in your immune system. Absent more data, it's just that, faith.
      - JabavuAdams 6y ago
        Not at all. We have the data. It's called summer. Also, I probably have a weaker immune system than most, and have several risk factors. We have simply not seen the increases and flare-ups we would expect if what you're asserting is true. What worries me is October-November. This is for Toronto, Canada. The beaches and parks are fully of people socially distancing-ish. The streets are full of a mix of people social distancing and not. Maybe half are wearing masks. Get outside and take care of your physical and mental health! Winter is coming. EDIT> I'm a physics and biology student. I am not completely unaware of the science.
        PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
        > It's called summer. Did you somehow miss the season in progress when COVID19 hit southern hemispheric countries in the early US spring?
        JabavuAdams 6y ago
        This is what you choose to focus on, from my post? It's irrelevant as that was before social distancing. Also, we've learned more about this disease since then. Our current local guidelines are that masks are only required indoors or when distancing is not possible, and that seems to be borne out by the evidence. Over the summer people have been out at the beach, out in the parks, and out on the streets while only social distancing-ish. If walking through someone's exhaust plume were as much of a threat as you guys are trying to make out, we would have certainly seen that in the numbers. We don't.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
      >I don't think it makes sense to worry about intermittently going through someone else's exhaust plume. You're welcome to think that. But it's based on faith, not evidence. I admit that I don't evidence to prove that it's dangerous to a specific level either. I just prefer to err on the side of caution.
- cellularmitosis 6y ago
  6 feet helps. Wearing masks helps. These things do not drop your chances to zero. 6 feet is not a universally applicable number. If you are standing directly down-wind of someone at a park, 6 feet isn’t going to help you. Droplets don’t magically disintegrate at 6 feet. Similarly, if you are up-wind, even 4 feet would be very effective. All of the guidelines are about statistical safety, not about the physics of your particular situation. As always, use your noggin. Stay safe.
  - clairity 6y ago
    > "All of the guidelines are about statistical safety..." this bit is correct, but the rest is falling for false equivalency by throwing around the same "helps" with every case. just being outside is overwhelmingly helpful, meaning it overwhelms every other factor by a large margin. relative to that, wearing a mask outside is of such negligible help to be effectively unhelpful. distance also overwhelms masks, both indoors and outdoors. distance outside helps only a little bit, but distance inside helps materially (because the positional and velocity vectors available to droplets and their virii and the dangers to them outside are exponentially greater). masks by themselves indoors are helpful only in limited situations (when in the direct exhaust of others for prolonged periods). > "...do not drop your chances to zero" for real-world situations, boolean evaluations like this are nearly always misleading, no matter in which direction. your chances of dying in a bathtub aren't zero either but we don't worry about it. relative magnitudes matter. yes, use your noggin.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  We know the virus can transmit much further than that indoors, there was a string of infections from someone sitting in a restaurant and the HVAC vent they were sitting near blew it down the row and infected a couple people sitting down wind of them. The same rough thing can happen outside just with shorter distances because the wind is more randomized and will spread out the virus faster.

Because the parks have people in them not wearing masks?

by AlanSE 6y ago

Because the parks have people in them not wearing masks?

You don't need masks if you are maintaining distance of 6 feet. Masks are for situations where distance can not be maintained such as trains and stores.

ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
You need masks indoors even if you are able to maintain a distance of 6 feet.
PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Evidence suggests that aerosols can remain in the air for minutes after being placed there by another non-masked individual. You could pass through the aerosol and inhale. Masks make sense outside too, at least in some circumstances.
- JabavuAdams 6y ago
  Considering that the risk of transmission seems to depend on how long you are inhaling shared air from an infected person, and their viral load, I don't think it makes sense to worry about intermittently going through someone else's exhaust plume. I use a mask outside if I'm on a narrow sidewalk, but otherwise, I don't think there's much point. My favourite thing is the people who wear a mask over the mouth, but not the nose. Like worst of both worlds.
  - outworlder 6y ago
    > Considering that the risk of transmission seems to depend on how long you are inhaling shared air from an infected person, and their viral load You have a lot of faith in your immune system. Absent more data, it's just that, faith.
    - JabavuAdams 6y ago
      Not at all. We have the data. It's called summer. Also, I probably have a weaker immune system than most, and have several risk factors. We have simply not seen the increases and flare-ups we would expect if what you're asserting is true. What worries me is October-November. This is for Toronto, Canada. The beaches and parks are fully of people socially distancing-ish. The streets are full of a mix of people social distancing and not. Maybe half are wearing masks. Get outside and take care of your physical and mental health! Winter is coming. EDIT> I'm a physics and biology student. I am not completely unaware of the science.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
        > It's called summer. Did you somehow miss the season in progress when COVID19 hit southern hemispheric countries in the early US spring?
        JabavuAdams 6y ago
        This is what you choose to focus on, from my post? It's irrelevant as that was before social distancing. Also, we've learned more about this disease since then. Our current local guidelines are that masks are only required indoors or when distancing is not possible, and that seems to be borne out by the evidence. Over the summer people have been out at the beach, out in the parks, and out on the streets while only social distancing-ish. If walking through someone's exhaust plume were as much of a threat as you guys are trying to make out, we would have certainly seen that in the numbers. We don't.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    >I don't think it makes sense to worry about intermittently going through someone else's exhaust plume. You're welcome to think that. But it's based on faith, not evidence. I admit that I don't evidence to prove that it's dangerous to a specific level either. I just prefer to err on the side of caution.
cellularmitosis 6y ago
6 feet helps. Wearing masks helps. These things do not drop your chances to zero. 6 feet is not a universally applicable number. If you are standing directly down-wind of someone at a park, 6 feet isn’t going to help you. Droplets don’t magically disintegrate at 6 feet. Similarly, if you are up-wind, even 4 feet would be very effective. All of the guidelines are about statistical safety, not about the physics of your particular situation. As always, use your noggin. Stay safe.
- clairity 6y ago
  > "All of the guidelines are about statistical safety..." this bit is correct, but the rest is falling for false equivalency by throwing around the same "helps" with every case. just being outside is overwhelmingly helpful, meaning it overwhelms every other factor by a large margin. relative to that, wearing a mask outside is of such negligible help to be effectively unhelpful. distance also overwhelms masks, both indoors and outdoors. distance outside helps only a little bit, but distance inside helps materially (because the positional and velocity vectors available to droplets and their virii and the dangers to them outside are exponentially greater). masks by themselves indoors are helpful only in limited situations (when in the direct exhaust of others for prolonged periods). > "...do not drop your chances to zero" for real-world situations, boolean evaluations like this are nearly always misleading, no matter in which direction. your chances of dying in a bathtub aren't zero either but we don't worry about it. relative magnitudes matter. yes, use your noggin.
rtkwe 6y ago
We know the virus can transmit much further than that indoors, there was a string of infections from someone sitting in a restaurant and the HVAC vent they were sitting near blew it down the row and infected a couple people sitting down wind of them. The same rough thing can happen outside just with shorter distances because the wind is more randomized and will spread out the virus faster.