4 ms·

If you are the facility manager for a location in the north pole, you wouldn't get paid for travel time to your place of employment. Bear in mind this is a dev

If you are the facility manager for a location in the north pole, you wouldn't get paid for travel time to your place of employment. Bear in mind this is a devil's advocate argument - I think they likely should be paid. But there are plenty of places where pay is weird - airline flight attendants for example are paid door close to door open - boarding, offloading, waiting in the airport security lines, waiting at the airport for delayed flights, are all mostly unpaid. The thinking being is that their substantially higher per hour pay makes up for it and it - and I'm sure Apple will make a similar argument. I would bet airport workers - or the people working the dunkin donuts in the food court - aren't paid for the time it takes to get through TSA either.

ghaff 6y ago
Flight attendants aren't paid all that much. At the majors it seems to be around $25-30/hr. (And presumably less on the regional jets).
- ygjb 6y ago
  So uh, for the most part, $50-$60k/year is a middle class income, and depending on where you live, can be upper middle class (in the US, in USD; in Canada the numbers are lower in CAD). For the vast majority of workers in North America, $25-$30/ hour is well paid. Many people buy houses and raise families in households with one middle class income and one lower income.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > $50-$60k/year is a middle class income, It's perhaps a middle income income, but its not an income that is typical of the middle class (petit bourgeoisie).
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      this is needless hairsplitting. I doubt you can find two people who agree on exactly what "middle class" means. some people use class as a direct proxy for income. for others class might be tied to the way you make money (hourly wage, salary, or returns from capital), level of education, and/or "lifestyle". the wikipedia page for "petit bourgeoisie" lists the following as examples: * Successful small business owners. * Middle managers in the service sector (middle management). * Lawyers working in small partnerships. * Private GP practices. depending how successful "successful" is here, the first and second examples could be people making $50-60k in a low-mid COL area. I don't think most people would consider a lawyer to be middle class (maybe upper-middle), and I definitely don't think they would consider a doctor with their own practice to be middle class.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    (1) you're assuming a 40hr work week (2) median household income in the USA is about $56k.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Assuming they're paid for 40 hours a week. The parent was pointing out that flight attendants spend a lot of time hanging around airports that they're not usually compensated for. I'm not arguing it's a bad job. Historically, it was seen as a somewhat exotic see-the-world job for young people. (And at least the Asian carriers sort of enforced that.)
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    It’s a terrible income considering how much time you have to devote to it, starting when you leave the house. $50-$60k when you come home everyday at a set schedule and get to see your kids and have dinner with the family is different than $50k-$60k where you spend almost all the time traveling and getting an extra dose of solar radiation. I’m sure it’s a great job for single and younger people who might want those trade offs, but it sucks overall.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  You get a lot of perks though - free meals, free flights, free hotel stays, etc. It might be an extra $25k yearly for the perks of being a drink server/babysitter at FL300
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    You get those perks, but you’re also not seeing your family.
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      I know 3 flight attendants and they are quintessential perennial bachelor(ettes). Two of them fly SF-NY all the time and have friend groups in both cities.
vkou 6y ago
> If you are the facility manager for a location in the north pole, you wouldn't get paid for travel time to your place of employment. That's because you can control where you live, and thus, control how long it takes you to travel to your place of employment. As an employee, you can't control how long the security screenings take, or what other 'non-productive' bullshit your job expects you to do.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > That's because you can control where you live, and thus, control how long it takes you to travel to your place of employment. even this isn't exactly clear-cut. lots of people that work in expensive areas can't afford to live within a 20-30 minute commute distance.

ghaff 6y ago

Flight attendants aren't paid all that much. At the majors it seems to be around $25-30/hr. (And presumably less on the regional jets).

ygjb 6y ago
So uh, for the most part, $50-$60k/year is a middle class income, and depending on where you live, can be upper middle class (in the US, in USD; in Canada the numbers are lower in CAD). For the vast majority of workers in North America, $25-$30/ hour is well paid. Many people buy houses and raise families in households with one middle class income and one lower income.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > $50-$60k/year is a middle class income, It's perhaps a middle income income, but its not an income that is typical of the middle class (petit bourgeoisie).
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    this is needless hairsplitting. I doubt you can find two people who agree on exactly what "middle class" means. some people use class as a direct proxy for income. for others class might be tied to the way you make money (hourly wage, salary, or returns from capital), level of education, and/or "lifestyle". the wikipedia page for "petit bourgeoisie" lists the following as examples: * Successful small business owners. * Middle managers in the service sector (middle management). * Lawyers working in small partnerships. * Private GP practices. depending how successful "successful" is here, the first and second examples could be people making $50-60k in a low-mid COL area. I don't think most people would consider a lawyer to be middle class (maybe upper-middle), and I definitely don't think they would consider a doctor with their own practice to be middle class.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  (1) you're assuming a 40hr work week (2) median household income in the USA is about $56k.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Assuming they're paid for 40 hours a week. The parent was pointing out that flight attendants spend a lot of time hanging around airports that they're not usually compensated for. I'm not arguing it's a bad job. Historically, it was seen as a somewhat exotic see-the-world job for young people. (And at least the Asian carriers sort of enforced that.)
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  It’s a terrible income considering how much time you have to devote to it, starting when you leave the house. $50-$60k when you come home everyday at a set schedule and get to see your kids and have dinner with the family is different than $50k-$60k where you spend almost all the time traveling and getting an extra dose of solar radiation. I’m sure it’s a great job for single and younger people who might want those trade offs, but it sucks overall.
oh_sigh 6y ago
You get a lot of perks though - free meals, free flights, free hotel stays, etc. It might be an extra $25k yearly for the perks of being a drink server/babysitter at FL300
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  You get those perks, but you’re also not seeing your family.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    I know 3 flight attendants and they are quintessential perennial bachelor(ettes). Two of them fly SF-NY all the time and have friend groups in both cities.

vkou 6y ago

> If you are the facility manager for a location in the north pole, you wouldn't get paid for travel time to your place of employment. That's because you can control where you live, and thus, control how long it takes you to travel to your place of employment. As an employee, you can't control how long the security screenings take, or what other 'non-productive' bullshit your job expects you to do.

leetcrew 6y ago
> That's because you can control where you live, and thus, control how long it takes you to travel to your place of employment. even this isn't exactly clear-cut. lots of people that work in expensive areas can't afford to live within a 20-30 minute commute distance.