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Reminds me of the mentality strong players in MOBAs advocate for. You're playing on a team with four other strangers, so it can be easy to feel hopeless and giv

Reminds me of the mentality strong players in MOBAs advocate for. You're playing on a team with four other strangers, so it can be easy to feel hopeless and give up when they make mistakes. But the most optimal thing to do is to not focus on their mistakes, but focus on how you can correct your own mistakes: how you can beat your lane opponent, how you can anticipate a jungle gank, how you can translate a won lane into a won game, how you can communicate your intent effectively with pings to prevent that failed dive next time, how you can foster a positive mentality among your teammates and what you can do to help them win their lanes. You get better by revisiting the decisions you made, think about how you could do better next time, and move on to the next challenge. When you develop learned helplessness, you stop getting better and can actually become worse.

RangerScience 6y ago
This is a really fantastic way to describe this, thank you. I'm considering the last few situations I was in, professionally, and how they match these descriptions... How do you translate IC work wins into company wins (akin to turning a lane win into a game win)? Is... step one of that, gaining the organizational power to expand beyond your lane? PS - This concept is hazy and I'm finding it hard to grasp to put it into words ATM, so if this isn't clear enough for responses, ask some questions and I'll try again.
- WJW 6y ago
  Mostly, become good enough in your own lane that you get access to / become desirable for teams with other good players. Some games are just lost no matter how well you manage your own lane, similar to how some companies are doomed no matter how good their tech is.
  - RangerScience 6y ago
    Hmm.. "The game is lost when those who're winning in it aren't given the lead" ? Then reconjugate to be a thing you can do - "If the game's being lost, and you're winning in lane, ask to be given leadership. It's when /that/ comes back 'no' that it's time for you to find a new game." (I'm noticing this is begin to look like "Winners want the ball.")
    - jmcgough 6y ago
      You don't have to ask for leadership to do things to enable others. Like improving CI, facilitating communication with another team, fostering a positive environment. I think ICs who focus solely on keeping their head down and writing good code are limiting themselves, and it's a similar mentality I see at lower ranks in games.
      - RangerScience 6y ago
        This! Definitely. Can you go into more detail / provide links for more on exactly this?
    - WJW 6y ago
      I'm not very positive about this either. Great skills in one position don't necessarily translate well to leadership skills. It's even worse outside the area of expertise. If the dev team has been rocking it but sales can't deliver, would you promote one of the devs to Head of Sales in the hope that this would turn the ship around? In any case, asking to be given the lead only works if you have sufficient levels above you that leadership can be taken away from the people currently in charge. If those are (for example) the founders of the company, good luck.
      - RangerScience 6y ago
        Hmm. I think a good question, even if the question itself shows the error - - To keep using the MOBA analogy (for me that'd be LoL), when you're winning in your lane enough to roam, you don't take over someone else's lane, you go assist them in it. If eng is killing it and sales are lagging, I guess you'd send some folks from one to assist and empower the other. Maybe sales doesn't understand the tech well enough to sell it, maybe what sells isn't what's been built, maybe it's a question of moral and bodies, maybe it's a question of tooling.
        WJW 6y ago
        Hmmm. I'll admit I'm not much of a MOBA player (SC2 is more my thing) but at some point "roaming" stops working because the game changes. MOBAs work because skills transfer at least reasonably well between lanes. The amount at which an HR person could help me with algorithmic problems is very limited, as is the amount to which I could help them with legal issues. To that extent "real world" problems don't translate well to game worlds. I am intrigued by the possible interplays with sales though. So far I have not been in a position to really help them out, but maybe I'm just lacking in imagination?
guildan 6y ago
You don't have much control over mistakes they can make, but you have a better control on your own mistake or what you can do to prevent them from making some of theirs. By focusing on you and what you can do to help, you're being a positive force in the team. When other members of my team help me or do actions that prevent mistakes I can do, I'm so happy to give back to them. If the only thing they do is complain to me, well you just sap my motivation.
graton 6y ago
MOBA = Multiplayer Online Battle Arena I think... First thing that came up when I searched.
- jmcgough 6y ago
  Yep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_aren...
bargl 6y ago
This, one thing I've heard about Michael Jordan wasn't just that he was amazing at the game himself, but that he was inspirational to his entire team. He pushed them to do better because he pushed himself to do better.

RangerScience 6y ago

This is a really fantastic way to describe this, thank you. I'm considering the last few situations I was in, professionally, and how they match these descriptions... How do you translate IC work wins into company wins (akin to turning a lane win into a game win)? Is... step one of that, gaining the organizational power to expand beyond your lane? PS - This concept is hazy and I'm finding it hard to grasp to put it into words ATM, so if this isn't clear enough for responses, ask some questions and I'll try again.

WJW 6y ago
Mostly, become good enough in your own lane that you get access to / become desirable for teams with other good players. Some games are just lost no matter how well you manage your own lane, similar to how some companies are doomed no matter how good their tech is.
- RangerScience 6y ago
  Hmm.. "The game is lost when those who're winning in it aren't given the lead" ? Then reconjugate to be a thing you can do - "If the game's being lost, and you're winning in lane, ask to be given leadership. It's when /that/ comes back 'no' that it's time for you to find a new game." (I'm noticing this is begin to look like "Winners want the ball.")
  - jmcgough 6y ago
    You don't have to ask for leadership to do things to enable others. Like improving CI, facilitating communication with another team, fostering a positive environment. I think ICs who focus solely on keeping their head down and writing good code are limiting themselves, and it's a similar mentality I see at lower ranks in games.
    - RangerScience 6y ago
      This! Definitely. Can you go into more detail / provide links for more on exactly this?
  - WJW 6y ago
    I'm not very positive about this either. Great skills in one position don't necessarily translate well to leadership skills. It's even worse outside the area of expertise. If the dev team has been rocking it but sales can't deliver, would you promote one of the devs to Head of Sales in the hope that this would turn the ship around? In any case, asking to be given the lead only works if you have sufficient levels above you that leadership can be taken away from the people currently in charge. If those are (for example) the founders of the company, good luck.
    - RangerScience 6y ago
      Hmm. I think a good question, even if the question itself shows the error - - To keep using the MOBA analogy (for me that'd be LoL), when you're winning in your lane enough to roam, you don't take over someone else's lane, you go assist them in it. If eng is killing it and sales are lagging, I guess you'd send some folks from one to assist and empower the other. Maybe sales doesn't understand the tech well enough to sell it, maybe what sells isn't what's been built, maybe it's a question of moral and bodies, maybe it's a question of tooling.
      - WJW 6y ago
        Hmmm. I'll admit I'm not much of a MOBA player (SC2 is more my thing) but at some point "roaming" stops working because the game changes. MOBAs work because skills transfer at least reasonably well between lanes. The amount at which an HR person could help me with algorithmic problems is very limited, as is the amount to which I could help them with legal issues. To that extent "real world" problems don't translate well to game worlds. I am intrigued by the possible interplays with sales though. So far I have not been in a position to really help them out, but maybe I'm just lacking in imagination?

guildan 6y ago

You don't have much control over mistakes they can make, but you have a better control on your own mistake or what you can do to prevent them from making some of theirs. By focusing on you and what you can do to help, you're being a positive force in the team. When other members of my team help me or do actions that prevent mistakes I can do, I'm so happy to give back to them. If the only thing they do is complain to me, well you just sap my motivation.

graton 6y ago

MOBA = Multiplayer Online Battle Arena I think... First thing that came up when I searched.

jmcgough 6y ago
Yep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_aren...

bargl 6y ago

This, one thing I've heard about Michael Jordan wasn't just that he was amazing at the game himself, but that he was inspirational to his entire team. He pushed them to do better because he pushed himself to do better.