12 ms·

As a teenager, I worked running boardwalk games for a very well known theme park. I don't want to say the name, but let's just say it was one with many flags.

As a teenager, I worked running boardwalk games for a very well known theme park. I don't want to say the name, but let's just say it was one with many flags. Every day the workflow was as follows: 1. Sign-in in the employee entrance office. 2. Get your cash bag from costumes. 3. Pick up $200 worth of singles from the cash office for making change which both you and the teller would count out. 4. Go through a security check. 5. Walkthrough the park from the employee entrance to where your game was (often the other side of the park). The whole thing took 20 minutes and we would signed-in to start being paid at the next 15 minute interval from when we arrived at our game. When we checked out, we did the whole process in reverse but would be signed-out for the previous 15 minute interval when we left our game area. All in all, we were losing 40-68 minutes of wages per day. Worse if there were long lines in the office or costumes or the cash office. Of course, we were also only paid $6.15 an hour and had to pay union dues out of that, so in total, it didn't add up to much...

spaced-out 6y ago
>Of course, we were also only paid $6.15 an hour and had to pay union dues out of that, so in total, it didn't add up to much... Not to you, but it definitely added up to a noticeable amount for your employer.
rgbrenner 6y ago
That's a lot.. an hour a day is 1/8th of your pay. If this was year around, that would be (260 work days) $1600.. out of $12800/year total gross pay for full time. You say it's not a lot, but that's only because the job doesn't pay a lot and (I assume) it was short term.
OldHand2018 6y ago
As a teenager, I worked at a Kmart. It didn't take too long to be "promoted" to cashier. They never let anyone near the money room without already being on the clock. You got your till loaded with cash, counted it out, and walked to your register. All on the clock. When done, you took your till back, counted it out, and handed it back in. All on the clock. I'm only writing this as a counter example - not every place was awful about it.
mikestew 6y ago
had to pay union dues out of that Rhetorical question, but what the hell was the union doing while this wage theft was going on?
- nickff 6y ago
  Some unions basically 'collect' members by unionizing a bunch of small-medium size companies which are completely separate from their 'main business(es)'; they proceed to basically ignore these members, and just collect dues from them.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Agreed. I worked for a private ambulance company as an EMT and paramedic. We were "represented" by the Teamsters. Any grievance? Usually resulted in us having to request a steward/rep from multiple counties away, who knew nothing about EMS and had our contract for reference. You would know more about what the issue was or why it was inappropriate that the union rep. You'd usually have to "pre-game" and explain why a certain thing was appropriate or inappropriate because they were used to representing truck drivers with disputes about haulage, hours, etc., and had no idea about emergency medicine, or DOT provisions for emergency vehicles. We eventually decertified (or rather, left the union).
liability 6y ago
It's stunning your union would permit this shit. It's no wonder Americans in general are so sour on unions if this is a representative experience.
- MiroF 6y ago
  Unions are hard because employers can basically do whatever the fuck they want to fight the union and they usually only get the NLRB injunction/penalty months/years later, after everyone originally supporting the action has been removed by the company. Some unions are also just in the pocket of management. I have friends who are teamster organizers and they've told me some managers in some industries will actually request unions.
  - hyperdimension 6y ago
    > Some unions are also just in the pocket of management. I honestly believe you on this point, but that is just so crazy that I'd be curious as to the turn of events that would turn out to the union selling out its soul so completely. Unless, of course, that was their intended goal. It just seems so antithetical to the theoretical principles of a union.
    - MiroF 6y ago
      I think it's not the union that has sold its soul so much as targeting specific individuals who are important in governing a certain local or something, and getting them to sell out. See, for instance, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/business/gm-fiat-chrysler-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/business/gm-fiat-chrysler... > General Motors has accused Fiat Chrysler of bribing union officials to get a leg up on G.M. in contract negotiations, contending in a lawsuit that its competitor paid for the union’s negotiating team to have a $7,000 dinner shortly after concluding a labor agreement. Fiat Chrysler has called the suit meritless. I think many are interpreting my comment as anti-union, which it was not meant to be. Unions can be coopted by management, but better to have some sort of worker council/representation than none at all.
  - 6y ago
MiroF 6y ago
Over 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, that's a loss of ~$2000 in 2020 dollars, not counting the dues
98codes 6y ago
Meanwhile, at the Magic Kingdom down in Florida, we would clock in after taking the bus from the employee lot to the main park employee entrance and then get our uniform, get changed, walk to the attraction, etc. On leaving, we would leave our attraction 20 minutes prior to the end of our shift, walk back, get changed, etc, and then clock out. Unions matter. I'm shocked that any union would allow off the clock work like that.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  How is the conclusion that unions matter when they both had unions? More likely the cause of the disparity -- because this is actually a difference between the companies -- is that Disney tries to maintain a certain image about the wholesomeness of their enterprise which isn't worth compromising to avoid paying 8% more to workers who still aren't really making altogether that much money, and they also charge enough of a premium to be able to afford it.
- Mountain_Skies 6y ago
  Flight attendants have unions but still don't get paid unless the airplane door is closed.
- fsociety 6y ago
  Grew up in a town dictated by a union... they aren’t all good. Watched a lot of people lose their only source of income because they couldn’t reach a unanimous vote during an economic downturn.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    One union dictated the entire town?
- SllX 6y ago
  Just like it is best not to hold romantic notions about corporations, it is also best not to hold romantic notions about unions (which are just another type of corporation), non-profits (same) and bureaucracies in general. Some unions serve their members very well. Some are leeches. In either case they tend to stick together to raise their political power when possible.
jdmichal 6y ago
> ... signed-in to start being paid at the next 15 minute interval from when we arrived at our game. > ... signed-out for the previous 15 minute interval when we left our game area. This is actually the most surprising thing to me in your story. Usually the laws about rounding in time keeping state that the rounding must go the same direction. So if they round to the next interval on start, they should also be rounding to the next interval on end. The reason why this is the most surprising part to me, is because that's a pretty cut-and-dry labor violation. Compared to the rest that would have to go through a court case like the one in TFA.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  Employers, even large ones, regularly conduct large scale wage theft and nobody fights it.
  - godzillabrennus 6y ago
    Truth. God forbid though you steal from the employer. We have collectively allowed the government to approve private prisons for people heinous enough to commit crimes like that.
ROFISH 6y ago
Huh. I did the exact same job for a competing park, owned by a fair, and we got paid from when we showed up to the main office to when we ended at the main office. The only unpaid time was the walk to/from the very back of the parking lot to the main office.
burtonator 6y ago
> Of course, we were also only paid $6.15 an hour and had to pay union dues out of that, so in total, it didn't add up to much... I'm half joking but if your union dues were higher you would have been paid for that hour :-P
Forbo 6y ago
If only wage theft were pursued as viciously as other forms of theft.... The amount that happens is frankly quite disgusting. https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I’ve seen this chart before, and I believe it, but how is the wage theft number calculated? If employers are underpaying workers, how does one find out how much without a court ruling against the company?
- zaarn 6y ago
  Just the overtime and minimum violations could pay every US citizen a roughly 3000$ sized paycheck.

spaced-out 6y ago

>Of course, we were also only paid $6.15 an hour and had to pay union dues out of that, so in total, it didn't add up to much... Not to you, but it definitely added up to a noticeable amount for your employer.

rgbrenner 6y ago

That's a lot.. an hour a day is 1/8th of your pay. If this was year around, that would be (260 work days) $1600.. out of $12800/year total gross pay for full time. You say it's not a lot, but that's only because the job doesn't pay a lot and (I assume) it was short term.

OldHand2018 6y ago

As a teenager, I worked at a Kmart. It didn't take too long to be "promoted" to cashier. They never let anyone near the money room without already being on the clock. You got your till loaded with cash, counted it out, and walked to your register. All on the clock. When done, you took your till back, counted it out, and handed it back in. All on the clock. I'm only writing this as a counter example - not every place was awful about it.

mikestew 6y ago

had to pay union dues out of that Rhetorical question, but what the hell was the union doing while this wage theft was going on?

nickff 6y ago
Some unions basically 'collect' members by unionizing a bunch of small-medium size companies which are completely separate from their 'main business(es)'; they proceed to basically ignore these members, and just collect dues from them.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Agreed. I worked for a private ambulance company as an EMT and paramedic. We were "represented" by the Teamsters. Any grievance? Usually resulted in us having to request a steward/rep from multiple counties away, who knew nothing about EMS and had our contract for reference. You would know more about what the issue was or why it was inappropriate that the union rep. You'd usually have to "pre-game" and explain why a certain thing was appropriate or inappropriate because they were used to representing truck drivers with disputes about haulage, hours, etc., and had no idea about emergency medicine, or DOT provisions for emergency vehicles. We eventually decertified (or rather, left the union).

liability 6y ago

It's stunning your union would permit this shit. It's no wonder Americans in general are so sour on unions if this is a representative experience.

MiroF 6y ago
Unions are hard because employers can basically do whatever the fuck they want to fight the union and they usually only get the NLRB injunction/penalty months/years later, after everyone originally supporting the action has been removed by the company. Some unions are also just in the pocket of management. I have friends who are teamster organizers and they've told me some managers in some industries will actually request unions.
- hyperdimension 6y ago
  > Some unions are also just in the pocket of management. I honestly believe you on this point, but that is just so crazy that I'd be curious as to the turn of events that would turn out to the union selling out its soul so completely. Unless, of course, that was their intended goal. It just seems so antithetical to the theoretical principles of a union.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    I think it's not the union that has sold its soul so much as targeting specific individuals who are important in governing a certain local or something, and getting them to sell out. See, for instance, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/business/gm-fiat-chrysler-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/business/gm-fiat-chrysler... > General Motors has accused Fiat Chrysler of bribing union officials to get a leg up on G.M. in contract negotiations, contending in a lawsuit that its competitor paid for the union’s negotiating team to have a $7,000 dinner shortly after concluding a labor agreement. Fiat Chrysler has called the suit meritless. I think many are interpreting my comment as anti-union, which it was not meant to be. Unions can be coopted by management, but better to have some sort of worker council/representation than none at all.
- 6y ago

MiroF 6y ago

Over 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, that's a loss of ~$2000 in 2020 dollars, not counting the dues

98codes 6y ago

Meanwhile, at the Magic Kingdom down in Florida, we would clock in after taking the bus from the employee lot to the main park employee entrance and then get our uniform, get changed, walk to the attraction, etc. On leaving, we would leave our attraction 20 minutes prior to the end of our shift, walk back, get changed, etc, and then clock out. Unions matter. I'm shocked that any union would allow off the clock work like that.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
How is the conclusion that unions matter when they both had unions? More likely the cause of the disparity -- because this is actually a difference between the companies -- is that Disney tries to maintain a certain image about the wholesomeness of their enterprise which isn't worth compromising to avoid paying 8% more to workers who still aren't really making altogether that much money, and they also charge enough of a premium to be able to afford it.
Mountain_Skies 6y ago
Flight attendants have unions but still don't get paid unless the airplane door is closed.
fsociety 6y ago
Grew up in a town dictated by a union... they aren’t all good. Watched a lot of people lose their only source of income because they couldn’t reach a unanimous vote during an economic downturn.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  One union dictated the entire town?
SllX 6y ago
Just like it is best not to hold romantic notions about corporations, it is also best not to hold romantic notions about unions (which are just another type of corporation), non-profits (same) and bureaucracies in general. Some unions serve their members very well. Some are leeches. In either case they tend to stick together to raise their political power when possible.

jdmichal 6y ago

> ... signed-in to start being paid at the next 15 minute interval from when we arrived at our game. > ... signed-out for the previous 15 minute interval when we left our game area. This is actually the most surprising thing to me in your story. Usually the laws about rounding in time keeping state that the rounding must go the same direction. So if they round to the next interval on start, they should also be rounding to the next interval on end. The reason why this is the most surprising part to me, is because that's a pretty cut-and-dry labor violation. Compared to the rest that would have to go through a court case like the one in TFA.

throwaway2048 6y ago
Employers, even large ones, regularly conduct large scale wage theft and nobody fights it.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  Truth. God forbid though you steal from the employer. We have collectively allowed the government to approve private prisons for people heinous enough to commit crimes like that.

ROFISH 6y ago

Huh. I did the exact same job for a competing park, owned by a fair, and we got paid from when we showed up to the main office to when we ended at the main office. The only unpaid time was the walk to/from the very back of the parking lot to the main office.

burtonator 6y ago

> Of course, we were also only paid $6.15 an hour and had to pay union dues out of that, so in total, it didn't add up to much... I'm half joking but if your union dues were higher you would have been paid for that hour :-P

Forbo 6y ago

If only wage theft were pursued as viciously as other forms of theft.... The amount that happens is frankly quite disgusting. https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg

colejohnson66 6y ago
I’ve seen this chart before, and I believe it, but how is the wage theft number calculated? If employers are underpaying workers, how does one find out how much without a court ruling against the company?
zaarn 6y ago
Just the overtime and minimum violations could pay every US citizen a roughly 3000$ sized paycheck.