3 ms·

I'm about to graduate in June, so this comment is particularly relevant to my interests. Thanks. How early is too early to switch jobs?

by whimsy 15y ago

jasonkester 15y ago
2 years. Before that you're so green that you're essentially still a college graduate with no experience. It also depends on what you're doing and whether you're genuinely good. If you have a chance to build something that you can point to to prove that yes, I really am good at what I do, then you'll have a much easier job convincing the next place to take you on.
- whimsy 15y ago
  metawhimsy.com is my current (crappy) resumé. I'm not quite a college graduate, but I wouldn't say I have no experience, either. Unfortunately, I don't have much to point at, either, since most of my experience is sysadmin-y stuff. Does that change things at all?
  - TuaAmin13 15y ago
    My friend is taking a 1 credit hour "learn to get a job" type course in his senior year. Among the few pearls of wisdom, they told him that the average duration for a college grad is 18 months. So I'd say 12-24 months is definitely plausible, as I've heard of people leaving in as little as 8 months. I don't think at that point it's for the money, it's more for the environment because most people don't have a lot of work experience coming out of college to know what type of work environment they'd like. Money isn't everything, and you have to enjoy life beyond your salary. Experience per unit time would really depend on the company, or if you're in a large company, the team you're working in. My last job was a medium sized company (~200) but my IT team was 7 people when all 5 of the interns came in. I got to do a ton of things that I probably wouldn't have done in a company with more bureaucracy, and that was at intern level.
    - whimsy 15y ago
      That pearl is valuable to me; thanks.
- psykotic 15y ago
  2 years is a good but somewhat arbitrary number. As you say, it depends on what you did in that time. At a smaller company, you can be productive almost instantly, allowing you to make major contributions in two years if you really push yourself. At a bigger company, you might spend the first six months just getting up to speed on their sprawling codebase before you can make any contributions. Even after that period, the inertia of politics and legacy code will still be slowing your pace. Two years at Microsoft circa 2010 isn't the same as two years at a fast-moving 20-person company. So my advice is to make sure the first company you join is one where you can make big contributions right away. Kill yourself working that job. Don't worry too much about screwing up (you will in any case). Do it right and you'll be set on the right path for the rest of your career.
  - gaius 15y ago
    getting up to speed on their sprawling codebase That too is valuable experience, of getting up to speed on sprawling codebases, which is a skill in its own right, and not one you get taught at college, and one you will need if you want to get involved in substantial projects later on. Negotiating corporate politics is valuable experience early on in your career as well. There is a cost in switching too soon, and that is that you will be earmarked as a person who flits between jobs. 2-3 years at the first job is de rigeur IMHO. Yes you will learn an awful lot in your first year on the job, but you also have no perspective on how much there is. I remember in the dotcom days kids with 1 year of experience out of college would call themselves "senior software engineer". Good luck getting hired by a guy with 10 years experience!
    - psykotic 15y ago
      Sorry for the belated reply: My first job was at Epic Games working with Unreal Engine 2 which had a codebase of well over a million lines of C++ and UnrealScript. So, I agree with you of the value of learning your way around sprawling legacy codebases. But the company was still small back then (I think I was the 25th employee and the 10th programmer) and you could jump in at the deep end and quickly start getting things done. I've since worked at a massive company. I learned a lot from that, but it would have been frustrating had I gone there in my early career. That's the distinction I was trying to draw. Getting red-flagged if you have too short stints at jobs is definitely a risk with taking Jason's advice. When I'm hiring people in the game industry, the most important clue in that respect is whether they stayed long enough to ship the projects they started, within reasonable limits. That usually works out to a 2-3 year minimum. That criterion isn't just meant to weed out job hoppers. The final six months of shipping a game are just qualitatively different (often in unpleasant but educational ways) from the rest of the development cycle. If you fucked up your design in the earlier stages, that is when your chickens come home to roost.
- petervandijck 15y ago
  2 years is long. 1 year is fine.
  - jasonkester 15y ago
    For your first job out of school? Really? Would you hire a guy with 1 year experience into a non-junior position? If not, then where is the advantage from jumping from one junior position to another? You need to put in a few years of grinding at the beginning of your career to get yourself into a spot where you're probably good. If you jump around too early, you just have to start that grind all over again at the next place.
    - petervandijck 15y ago
      Depends what they did in their job, and depends what they did on the side.
kwis 15y ago
Don't forget that you can switch jobs internally as well. Companies love to recruit internally, because it's a low-risk hire and they get to retain talent.
- danssig 15y ago
  But also keep in mind that this has some big caveats: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2437005 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2437005

I'm about to graduate in June, so this comment is particularly relevant to my interests. Thanks. How early is too early to switch jobs?

by whimsy 15y ago

I'm about to graduate in June, so this comment is particularly relevant to my interests. Thanks. How early is too early to switch jobs?

jasonkester 15y ago

2 years. Before that you're so green that you're essentially still a college graduate with no experience. It also depends on what you're doing and whether you're genuinely good. If you have a chance to build something that you can point to to prove that yes, I really am good at what I do, then you'll have a much easier job convincing the next place to take you on.

whimsy 15y ago
metawhimsy.com is my current (crappy) resumé. I'm not quite a college graduate, but I wouldn't say I have no experience, either. Unfortunately, I don't have much to point at, either, since most of my experience is sysadmin-y stuff. Does that change things at all?
- TuaAmin13 15y ago
  My friend is taking a 1 credit hour "learn to get a job" type course in his senior year. Among the few pearls of wisdom, they told him that the average duration for a college grad is 18 months. So I'd say 12-24 months is definitely plausible, as I've heard of people leaving in as little as 8 months. I don't think at that point it's for the money, it's more for the environment because most people don't have a lot of work experience coming out of college to know what type of work environment they'd like. Money isn't everything, and you have to enjoy life beyond your salary. Experience per unit time would really depend on the company, or if you're in a large company, the team you're working in. My last job was a medium sized company (~200) but my IT team was 7 people when all 5 of the interns came in. I got to do a ton of things that I probably wouldn't have done in a company with more bureaucracy, and that was at intern level.
  - whimsy 15y ago
    That pearl is valuable to me; thanks.
psykotic 15y ago
2 years is a good but somewhat arbitrary number. As you say, it depends on what you did in that time. At a smaller company, you can be productive almost instantly, allowing you to make major contributions in two years if you really push yourself. At a bigger company, you might spend the first six months just getting up to speed on their sprawling codebase before you can make any contributions. Even after that period, the inertia of politics and legacy code will still be slowing your pace. Two years at Microsoft circa 2010 isn't the same as two years at a fast-moving 20-person company. So my advice is to make sure the first company you join is one where you can make big contributions right away. Kill yourself working that job. Don't worry too much about screwing up (you will in any case). Do it right and you'll be set on the right path for the rest of your career.
- gaius 15y ago
  getting up to speed on their sprawling codebase That too is valuable experience, of getting up to speed on sprawling codebases, which is a skill in its own right, and not one you get taught at college, and one you will need if you want to get involved in substantial projects later on. Negotiating corporate politics is valuable experience early on in your career as well. There is a cost in switching too soon, and that is that you will be earmarked as a person who flits between jobs. 2-3 years at the first job is de rigeur IMHO. Yes you will learn an awful lot in your first year on the job, but you also have no perspective on how much there is. I remember in the dotcom days kids with 1 year of experience out of college would call themselves "senior software engineer". Good luck getting hired by a guy with 10 years experience!
  - psykotic 15y ago
    Sorry for the belated reply: My first job was at Epic Games working with Unreal Engine 2 which had a codebase of well over a million lines of C++ and UnrealScript. So, I agree with you of the value of learning your way around sprawling legacy codebases. But the company was still small back then (I think I was the 25th employee and the 10th programmer) and you could jump in at the deep end and quickly start getting things done. I've since worked at a massive company. I learned a lot from that, but it would have been frustrating had I gone there in my early career. That's the distinction I was trying to draw. Getting red-flagged if you have too short stints at jobs is definitely a risk with taking Jason's advice. When I'm hiring people in the game industry, the most important clue in that respect is whether they stayed long enough to ship the projects they started, within reasonable limits. That usually works out to a 2-3 year minimum. That criterion isn't just meant to weed out job hoppers. The final six months of shipping a game are just qualitatively different (often in unpleasant but educational ways) from the rest of the development cycle. If you fucked up your design in the earlier stages, that is when your chickens come home to roost.
petervandijck 15y ago
2 years is long. 1 year is fine.
- jasonkester 15y ago
  For your first job out of school? Really? Would you hire a guy with 1 year experience into a non-junior position? If not, then where is the advantage from jumping from one junior position to another? You need to put in a few years of grinding at the beginning of your career to get yourself into a spot where you're probably good. If you jump around too early, you just have to start that grind all over again at the next place.
  - petervandijck 15y ago
    Depends what they did in their job, and depends what they did on the side.

kwis 15y ago

Don't forget that you can switch jobs internally as well. Companies love to recruit internally, because it's a low-risk hire and they get to retain talent.

danssig 15y ago
But also keep in mind that this has some big caveats: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2437005 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2437005