4 ms·

> such as not letting someone leave the premises while not paying them Honestly I suspect this is mostly a logistics problem. The clock is in the break room th

by viro 6y ago

> such as not letting someone leave the premises while not paying them Honestly I suspect this is mostly a logistics problem. The clock is in the break room the security check is at the door. A security check in the break room feels a little pointless. But in all fairness my store was rather small and we didn't really do security checks.

emidln 6y ago
It seems pretty easy to fix this for Apple by relying on video to prove whether employees are in store/breakroom by default and allowing overrides for special circumstances. This might result in Apple paying a few minutes more here and there, but the burden should be on the more powerful party (the company in labor situations). This doesn't even have to be automated, it could trivially be the manager's job to account for their crew's start/stop by spending max 5 minutes a day with cameras. I believe commercial systems can already automate this if you didn't want to burden your managers with this.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  I can walk into an apple store, grab something moderately expensive off the shelf, scan the barcode on my phone, pay for it, then stick it in my bag and leave. Presumably Apple has some method for making sure that people who grab items off of the shelf and put it in their bag aren't stealing. I've never once been stopped by an Apple employee when I've paid via the app. I don't understand how it can be that Apple can accept that level of shop-lifting risk but can't use the same method to reach an acceptable level of risk with respect to employees. Especially since I would expect Apple to trust employees more than random customers, not less.
  - bigwavedave 6y ago
    I can't speak for Apple, but something I was told at GNC that shocked me about the way companies might view their workers is that I, as a white male employee that enjoyed exercise, was always under more suspicion of theft than any customer would be. My manager straight up told me this, there wasn't any inference on my part nor was this some subtle implication. I understand they're different companies and different markets, but now I typically assume that most companies are more suspicious of their employees (the people who spend so much time in the store, who have a better knowledge of security than the average customer, who know what products usually go missing organically, what times someone is likely to be looking at them, etc) than the average random stranger who walks in.
    - soperj 6y ago
      are you the bigwavedave (of bigwavedave.ca)?
      - bigwavedave 6y ago
        Nope. Just a guy who's a fan of an old comedy tape called "Dating 911".
    - viro 6y ago
      I managed inventory at an Apple store and most of our policies was related to this risk. Since as a employee I'm able to mark a product as unsellable its gives the employee a lot of power to try to steal. Thats why if you look at a stores trash you will NEVER see a Apple product. Everything was sent back to one of the warehouses. even damaged cables. A bad employee can steal a lot more than any single customer. Apple just tries to be nicer about it ... positive intent and all that jazz. ....Hell the trash was the only security check that my store did.
onetimemanytime 6y ago
Surely Apple can automatically add xx minutes a day to their paycheck or ask them to leave xx minutes early to make up for it. This is a non-brainier, the employee is still at the premises and cannot leave or clock in until this required thing is done. Imagine a job where you had to do a 1 hour makeup to start the job. Paid or not?
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I agree the workers should get paid for the security check, but this doesn't seem like a good example. it takes me half an hour to shower and get dressed for work in the morning. should I get paid for that time? does it change anything if I drive to work in my pajamas and shower/dress on premises?
  - DudeInBasement 6y ago
    As long as you get dressed back in your pajamas when you leave, ;)
  - onetimemanytime 6y ago
    Showering is a routine thing, not required by your job (well it is kinda required, you can't stink the office but..). My example was makeup required for work, say a clown or actor.
    - FalconSensei 6y ago
      Exactly. Like, you arrive at the door at 9am, clock in, and then go to the person doing the make up. Because the makeup (similar to costume), is something very specific to your job. Showering and putting on regular clothes is something you would do for getting off your house, independently of what you do. Clown make up is specific to your job

by viro 6y ago

emidln 6y ago

It seems pretty easy to fix this for Apple by relying on video to prove whether employees are in store/breakroom by default and allowing overrides for special circumstances. This might result in Apple paying a few minutes more here and there, but the burden should be on the more powerful party (the company in labor situations). This doesn't even have to be automated, it could trivially be the manager's job to account for their crew's start/stop by spending max 5 minutes a day with cameras. I believe commercial systems can already automate this if you didn't want to burden your managers with this.

elliekelly 6y ago
I can walk into an apple store, grab something moderately expensive off the shelf, scan the barcode on my phone, pay for it, then stick it in my bag and leave. Presumably Apple has some method for making sure that people who grab items off of the shelf and put it in their bag aren't stealing. I've never once been stopped by an Apple employee when I've paid via the app. I don't understand how it can be that Apple can accept that level of shop-lifting risk but can't use the same method to reach an acceptable level of risk with respect to employees. Especially since I would expect Apple to trust employees more than random customers, not less.
- bigwavedave 6y ago
  I can't speak for Apple, but something I was told at GNC that shocked me about the way companies might view their workers is that I, as a white male employee that enjoyed exercise, was always under more suspicion of theft than any customer would be. My manager straight up told me this, there wasn't any inference on my part nor was this some subtle implication. I understand they're different companies and different markets, but now I typically assume that most companies are more suspicious of their employees (the people who spend so much time in the store, who have a better knowledge of security than the average customer, who know what products usually go missing organically, what times someone is likely to be looking at them, etc) than the average random stranger who walks in.
  - soperj 6y ago
    are you the bigwavedave (of bigwavedave.ca)?
    - bigwavedave 6y ago
      Nope. Just a guy who's a fan of an old comedy tape called "Dating 911".
  - viro 6y ago
    I managed inventory at an Apple store and most of our policies was related to this risk. Since as a employee I'm able to mark a product as unsellable its gives the employee a lot of power to try to steal. Thats why if you look at a stores trash you will NEVER see a Apple product. Everything was sent back to one of the warehouses. even damaged cables. A bad employee can steal a lot more than any single customer. Apple just tries to be nicer about it ... positive intent and all that jazz. ....Hell the trash was the only security check that my store did.

onetimemanytime 6y ago

Surely Apple can automatically add xx minutes a day to their paycheck or ask them to leave xx minutes early to make up for it. This is a non-brainier, the employee is still at the premises and cannot leave or clock in until this required thing is done. Imagine a job where you had to do a 1 hour makeup to start the job. Paid or not?

leetcrew 6y ago
I agree the workers should get paid for the security check, but this doesn't seem like a good example. it takes me half an hour to shower and get dressed for work in the morning. should I get paid for that time? does it change anything if I drive to work in my pajamas and shower/dress on premises?
- DudeInBasement 6y ago
  As long as you get dressed back in your pajamas when you leave, ;)
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  Showering is a routine thing, not required by your job (well it is kinda required, you can't stink the office but..). My example was makeup required for work, say a clown or actor.
  - FalconSensei 6y ago
    Exactly. Like, you arrive at the door at 9am, clock in, and then go to the person doing the make up. Because the makeup (similar to costume), is something very specific to your job. Showering and putting on regular clothes is something you would do for getting off your house, independently of what you do. Clown make up is specific to your job