4 ms·

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way,

by podgaj 6y ago

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? I mean that is caused my lower serotonin as well. So for some reason we accept that depression because we have a reason for it? https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-you-r-brain https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-yo... You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. We react negatively to something in the environment, like a bad job or marriage.

_jal 6y ago
> By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? One reason is SSRIs typically require a a few weeks to reach effective levels in your system; about how long it takes to recover from the flu. > depression is fundamentally and immune disorder You appear to be playing a free association game with words, not describing reality.
- podgaj 6y ago
  The idea that it take weeks for antidepressants to reach 'effective levels" is a misunderstanding of the science. It is is true for MOST people that, for example, fluoxetine and its metabolite, norfluoxetine will be at a certain level in the serum before they have resolution of symptoms, but this is not the case for all people. It takes a very small dose to inhibit serotonin reuptake and this will happen with the first dose. https://www.nature.com/articles/1395757 https://www.nature.com/articles/1395757 "The single dose caused only a slight increase in drug plasma concentrations but relatively clear changes in sleep structure." And I was hoping you would all chime in and say it is useless for the flu. Because it might be very helpful https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120727171919.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120727171919.h...
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. That's a lot of certainty for something that is still very much uncertain. > By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? Because that's a short term, acute condition that will get better on its own? That's the same as saying "People in the hospital who can't breath are given oxygen, so why aren't runners who are breathing hard?" Because long term major depressive disorder is totally different than having a down couple of days.
- podgaj 6y ago
  More certain than ever actually: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354620300739 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462... Regarding oxygen use during running, it is already something: https://trainright.com/hyperoxic-training-little-know-training-technique-olympic-athletes-using/ https://trainright.com/hyperoxic-training-little-know-traini...
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    As best I can tell there's not implication of causation there - it could be that depression causes the immune disorder, just as it causes any other number of conditions. I don't know the value in assuming we can categorize it like that. I assume with the oxygen thing you're intentionally missing my point which is that a regular momentary disruption isn't considered a disorder.
    - podgaj 6y ago
      I agree with you, depression alters the immune system and the immune system can cause depression. But it is through the immune system that we feel the effect. "momentary disruption isn't considered a disorder" By definition it is. Duration is irrelevant. My panic attacks can last for only 2 minutes.
elliekelly 6y ago
> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. We react negatively to something in the environment, like a bad job or marriage. This is an atrociously overly simplistic statement. There are plenty of people who suffer from depression despite having everything going for them. A person can have not a single thing in the world to complain about and still have depression.
- podgaj 6y ago
  What about all the other things that might affect their immune system? Have they ruled them all out? Latent viral or bacterial infection? Allergies? Diet? Look at diet and Omega 6 consumption, that alone will screw with the immune system and throw the catecholamines off kilter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950146/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950146/
- zepto 6y ago
  “A person can not have a single thing in the world to complain about” What person?
  - podgaj 6y ago
    Gautama Buddha! =)
- nitrogen 6y ago
  I'd still argue that a person with "everything going for them" can still have a "reason" to be depressed. Maybe they do a really good duck impression -- calm on the surface, kicking frantically below. That is, maybe there is something wrong with their life or their past that isn't visible to others, or even to themselves. Or maybe they have been pursuing the checklists of society and found that they aren't personally fulfilled by them, and must seek fulfillment elsewhere. Maybe they have a desire to be living one kind of life but can only excel in a different kind of life that only looks good from the outside.

by podgaj 6y ago

_jal 6y ago

> By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? One reason is SSRIs typically require a a few weeks to reach effective levels in your system; about how long it takes to recover from the flu. > depression is fundamentally and immune disorder You appear to be playing a free association game with words, not describing reality.

podgaj 6y ago
The idea that it take weeks for antidepressants to reach 'effective levels" is a misunderstanding of the science. It is is true for MOST people that, for example, fluoxetine and its metabolite, norfluoxetine will be at a certain level in the serum before they have resolution of symptoms, but this is not the case for all people. It takes a very small dose to inhibit serotonin reuptake and this will happen with the first dose. https://www.nature.com/articles/1395757 https://www.nature.com/articles/1395757 "The single dose caused only a slight increase in drug plasma concentrations but relatively clear changes in sleep structure." And I was hoping you would all chime in and say it is useless for the flu. Because it might be very helpful https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120727171919.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120727171919.h...

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. That's a lot of certainty for something that is still very much uncertain. > By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? Because that's a short term, acute condition that will get better on its own? That's the same as saying "People in the hospital who can't breath are given oxygen, so why aren't runners who are breathing hard?" Because long term major depressive disorder is totally different than having a down couple of days.

podgaj 6y ago
More certain than ever actually: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354620300739 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462... Regarding oxygen use during running, it is already something: https://trainright.com/hyperoxic-training-little-know-training-technique-olympic-athletes-using/ https://trainright.com/hyperoxic-training-little-know-traini...
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  As best I can tell there's not implication of causation there - it could be that depression causes the immune disorder, just as it causes any other number of conditions. I don't know the value in assuming we can categorize it like that. I assume with the oxygen thing you're intentionally missing my point which is that a regular momentary disruption isn't considered a disorder.
  - podgaj 6y ago
    I agree with you, depression alters the immune system and the immune system can cause depression. But it is through the immune system that we feel the effect. "momentary disruption isn't considered a disorder" By definition it is. Duration is irrelevant. My panic attacks can last for only 2 minutes.

elliekelly 6y ago

> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. We react negatively to something in the environment, like a bad job or marriage. This is an atrociously overly simplistic statement. There are plenty of people who suffer from depression despite having everything going for them. A person can have not a single thing in the world to complain about and still have depression.

podgaj 6y ago
What about all the other things that might affect their immune system? Have they ruled them all out? Latent viral or bacterial infection? Allergies? Diet? Look at diet and Omega 6 consumption, that alone will screw with the immune system and throw the catecholamines off kilter. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950146/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6950146/
zepto 6y ago
“A person can not have a single thing in the world to complain about” What person?
- podgaj 6y ago
  Gautama Buddha! =)
nitrogen 6y ago
I'd still argue that a person with "everything going for them" can still have a "reason" to be depressed. Maybe they do a really good duck impression -- calm on the surface, kicking frantically below. That is, maybe there is something wrong with their life or their past that isn't visible to others, or even to themselves. Or maybe they have been pursuing the checklists of society and found that they aren't personally fulfilled by them, and must seek fulfillment elsewhere. Maybe they have a desire to be living one kind of life but can only excel in a different kind of life that only looks good from the outside.