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Fair enough, but what happens if you shift personal responsibility to some abstract concept like "the system"? Nothing. The system does not care about you, it t

Fair enough, but what happens if you shift personal responsibility to some abstract concept like "the system"? Nothing. The system does not care about you, it takes no responsibility, it just is. If it changes at all, it will do so at a glacial pace, because there's a lot of interest groups involved. The school system is a bureaucracy, it's in the business of maintaining problems, not solve them.

Nextgrid 6y ago
Why are we talking about personal responsibility or trying to put the fault on the kids? We're putting kids in a prison-like system with 8+ hours of forced labor and then we're surprised that they're doing unhealthy long-term choices when it comes to managing whatever little time they have left. Maybe we should not be putting them in a prison and address the root cause of the problem instead of criticizing how they cope with it?
- gridlockd 6y ago
  First, I'll have you know that your choice of words is ridiculous and may trigger severe eye-rolling in those who aren't quite as out of touch as you are. Secondly, I probably don't disagree all that much on the (lack of) merits of the public school systems. Having said that, you can live a life within that system and not make it actively worse for yourself, no matter who is at fault. That's personal responsibility.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    I am indeed using very strong words to try and drive my point home but it doesn't seem like it's working - maybe you just had a very different experience of school and got significant value out of it which made the inconvenience look worthwhile to you? Regardless of our opinions, I think the goal of this entire thread is to discuss the shortcomings of the system and how we can make it better and not just blame the kids for not coping well with it?
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      I think the goal of this thread is to scold me for "blaming the victim", which is unjustified. I'm not blaming anyone for being fed up with school, I certainly was fed up with it myself. The point is that no matter how injust "the system" is, no matter who is to blame for your predicament, there's always a way for you to make your situation worse still. If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Nextgrid 6y ago

Why are we talking about personal responsibility or trying to put the fault on the kids? We're putting kids in a prison-like system with 8+ hours of forced labor and then we're surprised that they're doing unhealthy long-term choices when it comes to managing whatever little time they have left. Maybe we should not be putting them in a prison and address the root cause of the problem instead of criticizing how they cope with it?

gridlockd 6y ago
First, I'll have you know that your choice of words is ridiculous and may trigger severe eye-rolling in those who aren't quite as out of touch as you are. Secondly, I probably don't disagree all that much on the (lack of) merits of the public school systems. Having said that, you can live a life within that system and not make it actively worse for yourself, no matter who is at fault. That's personal responsibility.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  I am indeed using very strong words to try and drive my point home but it doesn't seem like it's working - maybe you just had a very different experience of school and got significant value out of it which made the inconvenience look worthwhile to you? Regardless of our opinions, I think the goal of this entire thread is to discuss the shortcomings of the system and how we can make it better and not just blame the kids for not coping well with it?
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    I think the goal of this thread is to scold me for "blaming the victim", which is unjustified. I'm not blaming anyone for being fed up with school, I certainly was fed up with it myself. The point is that no matter how injust "the system" is, no matter who is to blame for your predicament, there's always a way for you to make your situation worse still. If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.