6 ms·

There is a somewhat questionable practise, that has proven very effective (by friends of course). After negotiating like patio suggested, you receive the offer

• abbasmehdi 16y ago
  Don't ever do that! Your offer will be retracted based on lack of interest unless you're a well known superstar.
  • martincmartin 16y ago
    As someone who has been on both sides of hiring, I think this is something you absolutely should do. When a company makes you an offer, it means all the people who interviewed you got together and decided they liked you. Mentally, the company has committed to you. For the hiring manager to lose you over a few thousand dollars a year will reflect very poorly on him/her. This is also the point where you have the highest leverage. Your leverage is always based around the idea that you might go to another company. When you're considering multiple offers, it's very credible that you might work for another company. Once you've been hired and you've been working there for a year, they figure the inertia of leaving your job and going to another company is big, and limit your salary raise.
    • michaelochurch 16y ago
      I disagree on the threat of retraction, obviously. Most firms aren't going to risk their reputations by rescinding an offer unless there was something severe (failure to disclose a felony) involved. However, I think using post-offer leverage to negotiate extra pay is a bad idea. The leverage exists, but it's limited. I'd rather use it to get insight into (and favor in) project allocation than a measly few grand. Project allocation is the difference between having a successful career-- learning a lot, working with great people, getting the promotions-- and needing to find a new job in 12 months. A few thousand dollars is nothing in comparison. This style of negotiation is more subtle, and takes the form of a "reverse interview" than a line-in-the-sand "I want $10k more" statement, but I think the former is better at (a) presenting yourself well, and (b) getting you what you actually want, which is a successful career. I also tend to subscribe to the philosophy that the first 120 days of any job (including post-offer negotiation) are an extended interview. What you want to show is that you care about your work intensely and that you have the potential to reach very high levels, but also that you expect to be challenged and given appropriate work; not that you are a mercenary who makes career decisions based on a few thousand dollars.
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      • abbasmehdi 16y ago
        Disagree? Like an opinion? Really? Are you a legal and HR expert? You are misguiding people here.
    • abbasmehdi 16y ago
      Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, but it has happend to me. The offer was retracted based on lack of interest on my part as seen by the company - this is back in '07 when I was in talks with a few companies and most had given me offer letters. You need to be careful with your advice to others, I know you mean well but it could really mess somebody up in a very real way.
      • martincmartin 16y ago
        Wow, I'm sorry that happened to you. I actually use a small tweak: rather than "all are equally good so I'm choosing based on salary," I pick the company I want, then go to the others and say "another company has offered me X. Could you offer me a little more?" Once they do, I go back to the company I want and say "another company has offered me Y. I really want to work for you, so could you match Y?" Perhaps the "I really want to you," and only asking to match another offer, is more important than I thought?
        • abbasmehdi 16y ago
          Thanks! :) The best thing is to get the company excited about you. They get excited by knowing that a) you're awesome in your skills, b) you're gonna be easy to coach, c) you're gonna hit the ground running, and d) you're passionate about the company because you buy into the culture and mission. My advice: go to salary.com and such sites and look at that data for that job, and tell them you are in the 80th, or 85th or 90th percentile, and why (what a typical guy in your fild does not know or what makes you exceptional).
  • encoderer 16y ago
    I disagree. I've never had an offer retracted. I'm not a "known superstar". I suppose, though, I've never tried to get into Facebook or Google. And I suppose in those companies, with huge applicant pools, they'd chose somebody else if I indicated I only saw working for them to be equal to working for my other offers (unless, of course, one was one of them, and my other offer was the other).
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    • abbasmehdi 16y ago
      You misunderstood, retraction is not over money, it is over lack of interest as seen by the company because they see it is as you buying time so you can wait to hear back from someone else, and thus they feel like a second choice, making you high risk, after months of training you might take off. Now you guys can be naive about it, but this has happened not just to me but to other people too. Why do you think companies ask "So why do you want to work for this company?" To gauge passion first and domain expertise second. Someone not willing to sign the dotted line is like bombing this question big time. Like I said, you speak on opinions, and I am speaking of facts. As PG as noted on a few occasions, it is important to know what you know, and know what you don’t know, championing things you haven’t a clue about will kill you quicker than anything else. And yes, I have paperwork from lawyers and the original offer letter in my possession.
  • brown9-2 16y ago
    Companies that attempt to pressure you into making a decision very quickly - for no apparent reason other than filling their own budget - are likely very poor places to work for.
    • abbasmehdi 16y ago
      There are many reasons why a new team member might be needed urgently...
      • run4yourlives 16y ago
        And none of the valid ones will allow two-three days to matter. If you are humming and hawing for weeks, sure, point taken.
  • danssig 16y ago
    If they're going to retract over a couple of grand that means they're insanely cheap. Why would you want to work for an insanely cheap company?
    • michaelochurch 16y ago
      If someone's going to turn down a great job over a couple of grand that means he's insanely greedy. Why would you want to hire an insanely greedy person? Salary matters-- you need enough that money isn't a personal problem for you, and salary is an indication of how the firm perceives your professional maturity-- but small margins don't.
      • danssig 16y ago
        >If someone's going to turn down a great job over a couple of grand that means he's insanely greedy. False symmetry. For a company, an extra 5k per year shouldn't even make a blip on the radar. If it does then I would have to question the stability of said company. For me however, as my sole income it does make a very obvious difference.
• michaelochurch 16y ago
  The good advice in here is that you should always take a few days to consider an offer. I'd use that time to get into contact with some friends or favorable interviewers at the company and get some "off the record" time to get a sense of what kinds of projects you'll get. Project allocation is more important than a measly $5,000 in salary. If compensation is an issue, figure out if you're being paid fairly. Not, "What do you make?" but "What should I expect to make?" People will give you accurate numbers. As for trying to claim another offer to get more pay... Bad idea! You're unlikely to have the offer retracted-- simply divulging that your offer was rescinded in the right corners of the internet will damage the firm's reputation in a way that is more costly than the cost of retaining you for a few months, but the "I have another offer" trick, if you use it to negotiate more compensation than you deserve, is going to damage your reputation among those who know you used the tactic. Yes, they'll hire you because rescinding an offer leads to negative press, but they won't like you much. Also, firms that lowball are generally not places you want to work. It's a huge warning sign. I got an offer at a company that lowballed me, I negotiated a 25% increase, and went to work there, and it was still a mistake. My observation is that the initial offer gives you the best sense you'll ever get (better than performance reviews!) of what those in power at the company think of you. If you negotiate a higher offer, you'll get a little bit more cash, but won't improve their perceptions of you. So you'll get crap project allocation and a high salary. When layoff season comes around, guess who's at the top of the list? A good company will pay you fairly regardless of your salary history and other alternatives, and likewise not be pushed around by high offers from, e.g., Wall Street, an industry that throws money at people so they ignore its deep cultural problems and generally low quality of work. If you want to negotiate a higher salary, there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. The wrong way is to say, "I have an offer at Goldman Sachs for 50% more", to which most self-respecting recruiters will say, "Then go work at Goldman." The right way is to say, "according to my research <don't disclose what your research is, especially if it involves people at the firm> the proper salary for a person of my position is $<X>. I also believe that I have considerable long-term potential both on the technical and executive ladders, so add 10%. Also, I don't need the 10% hiring bonus upfront so why don't we just include that in my salary, which allows you to pay it on a later schedule. So $<1.2X> is what I consider a fair number." The negotiation needs to be about what you can do for them, not what you can get from a competitor. You claim another offer to expedite hiring processes and to have leverage to ask for more insight into the work you'll be doing (and for more interesting work, to the extent that such things can be bargained). What you want to show is that you respect yourself and are looking for the best fit for you and your career, not that you're a mercenary who is only going to be there because of $5-10k in marginal compensation. People talk more than they should and you can get a negative reputation before you start if you do this.
• bconway 16y ago
  And since each has its merits, you decided to choose based on compensation I can think of a handful of companies off the top of my head that would immediately rescind the offer if you made this proclamation. I'd be careful about doing so.
  • michaelochurch 16y ago
    A rescinded offer is, at least from what I've seen, unlikely. The person is more likely to be hired but with an already negative reputation, not be successful in the company, and be laid off or fired early on. How it plays out: after 6 months, the person is let go with 3 months' severance not to disparage the company. That's actually a small price to pay for silence: 9 months' pay for 6 months of work and a gag rule. If the offer is rescinded outright, there's no chance to draw up a severance contract and that person will damage the company's reputation and make recruiting harder. The added recruiting difficulty might not be much (maybe 5-10% in the candidate's school/network and 0.25-0.50% globally due to negative internet posts) but firms don't want to take that risk, because recruiting is seriously expensive and hard. This is why companies don't rescind offers unless people do something really bad. It's much less risky to have the person work for a few months, fire the person if he or she doesn't disprove the negative opinion (which is hard to do, because once a negative opinion is formed of a person, it's almost impossible for that person to change it) created by the bad behavior, and get a non-disparagement clause in severance. What this means is: just because you're hired doesn't mean they actually like you. The post-offer stage and first 180 days of any job should be considered an extended interview. In that light, respectful negotiation is actually a good thing but being a jerk is not. Saying "I'm going to choose based on compensation" makes a really shitty impression. It's best to say, "I think I'm actually worth $<X> and here's why." Also: don't mention other firms or their pay packages, ever. One of the easiest and most common ways to make a bad impression in job searching is to disclose sensitive information (and competitors' salaries qualify).
• pnathan 16y ago
  One can also go rummage around different salary sites and do your research in a very targeted fashion - while we should all know our market value prior to negotiation, we can refine that number based on location, industry, offered title, etc. Use the extra days to your benefit and come back with a realistic counter offer. Remember, it does you no good to be that guy who extorted the company, but it does you no good to lowball yourself. Everyone needs to make a profit off the exchange of services for cash.