7 ms·

> failing to say one sentence when you're 22 costs you almost a hundred thousand dollars by the time you are thirty. Wow. As a CS-grad about to take a full-tim

by eroded 15y ago

> failing to say one sentence when you're 22 costs you almost a hundred thousand dollars by the time you are thirty. Wow. As a CS-grad about to take a full-time job offer, I'd surprisingly never thought of this at all. But how easy is it to say "Your offer plus $5k"? What could be the possible consequences of this?

Afton 15y ago
There is virtually no downside to this. Your university/college has coop advisors and employment offices. Go and get some advice for salary negotiating.
SamReidHughes 15y ago
You'll get a mark on your permanent record.
paulbaumgart 15y ago
Worst case, their reply will be "no", and then you can still decide you want to take the original offer. More likely, they'll agree to give you some more money. I'm no expert on the state of the art in salary negotiation books, but http://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-Make-Minute/dp/1580083102 http://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-Make-Minute/dp... is decent for getting you in the right mindset.
patio11 15y ago
Decision maker: Alright, let's talk numbers. What is your desired salary? You: I don't know, you're in a much better position to judge my worth to the firm than I am. Decisionmaker: But in terms of an actual number? You: [Polite nothings. Repeat as necessary.] Decisionmaker: Alright, how would $80k do? You: That's interesting. Would you do $85k? Decisionmaker: OK. That is literally how simple it is, and your downside risk is "Alright, in that case, $80k is alright" and nobody will remember this conversation 2 weeks from now except your checking account. You can do more complicated things, like demonstrating value to the firm, or treating any no as a suggestion that you negotiate some other aspect of the offer instead, but the simplest way to improve outcomes at negotiation is to actually negotiate. The marginal $5k gets compounded at every annual raise you have, virtually certain to be calculated by an HR drone's spreadsheet by multiplying a contentious number by a very non-contentious number (your current salary -- now $5k larger). It will increase other benefits you receive, such as employer match to your IRA. If you actually treat questions about salary history at face value when switching firms, it will also act as an anchor for your pricing for the rest of your career. (Giving out salary history? Yeah, that's another thing that can't possibly help you. Anyone asking you for salary history is saying, in as many words, "Please give me a reason why I should give you less money.")
- smcl 15y ago
  Right in that scenario the salary was a question "how would $80k do?", in my experience employers have rarely been so cavalier. They're a little more firm, i.e. "The offer is £80k" I'd be interested to see if anyone had a good comeback for that
  - mlinsey 15y ago
    The comeback is identical.
  - lemming 15y ago
    "90k and we have a deal."
  - aphexairlines 15y ago
    It's also often in a letter/email, not a phone conversation where you might mention that +5k as a natural reply.
    - patio11 15y ago
      Negotiating comp is even easier in emails! You have a written record of numbers that they can't ever go below now, and virtually infinite time to squash the butterflies in your stomach and craft your counter-offer.
  - patio11 15y ago
    80,000 sterling is an interesting number, and while I'd love to work with you, it would depend on the entire package. How much $PICK_A_PERK does that include? 20 days of vacation? Interesting. I believe we could compromise on the 80,000 sterling number if you were prepared to offer 24 days of vacation instead. The other option is treating the firm number as what it is, which is a suggestion which they intend to scare you into not negotiating. The CEO heard the firm number line once, too. He laughed at it, because haha, it is funny.
    - StavrosK 15y ago
jonah 15y ago
Well, it's like buying a car or a house but in reverse. The employer isn't going to pay you more than they have to so they'll make an offer at the low end of the reasonable range. Unless it's some minimum wage job, there is a range of valid salaries and they probably have budgeted 10% or more higher than their initial offer. Now, you may have to convince them you're worth getting paid higher in the range for that role but you should definitely counter-offer. Also, my general rule of thumb while negotiating is to counter with a number higher than you'd be happy with and then negotiate to something near the middle of the two. (I learned all this the hard way in my first job, but fortunately my manager was awesome and I got a 50% raise after a year.)
krobertson 15y ago
Absolutely ask for more. They never come in with their highest offer. You ever go in buying a car offering the highest you'll pay right off the bat? They won't retract the offer or anything. And even if they did, you probably wouldn't want to work for them in the long run, so would be doing you a favor.

by eroded 15y ago

Afton 15y ago

There is virtually no downside to this. Your university/college has coop advisors and employment offices. Go and get some advice for salary negotiating.

SamReidHughes 15y ago

You'll get a mark on your permanent record.

paulbaumgart 15y ago

Worst case, their reply will be "no", and then you can still decide you want to take the original offer. More likely, they'll agree to give you some more money. I'm no expert on the state of the art in salary negotiation books, but http://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-Make-Minute/dp/1580083102 http://www.amazon.com/Negotiating-Your-Salary-Make-Minute/dp... is decent for getting you in the right mindset.

patio11 15y ago

Decision maker: Alright, let's talk numbers. What is your desired salary? You: I don't know, you're in a much better position to judge my worth to the firm than I am. Decisionmaker: But in terms of an actual number? You: [Polite nothings. Repeat as necessary.] Decisionmaker: Alright, how would $80k do? You: That's interesting. Would you do $85k? Decisionmaker: OK. That is literally how simple it is, and your downside risk is "Alright, in that case, $80k is alright" and nobody will remember this conversation 2 weeks from now except your checking account. You can do more complicated things, like demonstrating value to the firm, or treating any no as a suggestion that you negotiate some other aspect of the offer instead, but the simplest way to improve outcomes at negotiation is to actually negotiate. The marginal $5k gets compounded at every annual raise you have, virtually certain to be calculated by an HR drone's spreadsheet by multiplying a contentious number by a very non-contentious number (your current salary -- now $5k larger). It will increase other benefits you receive, such as employer match to your IRA. If you actually treat questions about salary history at face value when switching firms, it will also act as an anchor for your pricing for the rest of your career. (Giving out salary history? Yeah, that's another thing that can't possibly help you. Anyone asking you for salary history is saying, in as many words, "Please give me a reason why I should give you less money.")

smcl 15y ago
Right in that scenario the salary was a question "how would $80k do?", in my experience employers have rarely been so cavalier. They're a little more firm, i.e. "The offer is £80k" I'd be interested to see if anyone had a good comeback for that
- mlinsey 15y ago
  The comeback is identical.
- lemming 15y ago
  "90k and we have a deal."
- aphexairlines 15y ago
  It's also often in a letter/email, not a phone conversation where you might mention that +5k as a natural reply.
  - patio11 15y ago
    Negotiating comp is even easier in emails! You have a written record of numbers that they can't ever go below now, and virtually infinite time to squash the butterflies in your stomach and craft your counter-offer.
- patio11 15y ago
  80,000 sterling is an interesting number, and while I'd love to work with you, it would depend on the entire package. How much $PICK_A_PERK does that include? 20 days of vacation? Interesting. I believe we could compromise on the 80,000 sterling number if you were prepared to offer 24 days of vacation instead. The other option is treating the firm number as what it is, which is a suggestion which they intend to scare you into not negotiating. The CEO heard the firm number line once, too. He laughed at it, because haha, it is funny.
  - StavrosK 15y ago

jonah 15y ago

Well, it's like buying a car or a house but in reverse. The employer isn't going to pay you more than they have to so they'll make an offer at the low end of the reasonable range. Unless it's some minimum wage job, there is a range of valid salaries and they probably have budgeted 10% or more higher than their initial offer. Now, you may have to convince them you're worth getting paid higher in the range for that role but you should definitely counter-offer. Also, my general rule of thumb while negotiating is to counter with a number higher than you'd be happy with and then negotiate to something near the middle of the two. (I learned all this the hard way in my first job, but fortunately my manager was awesome and I got a 50% raise after a year.)

krobertson 15y ago

Absolutely ask for more. They never come in with their highest offer. You ever go in buying a car offering the highest you'll pay right off the bat? They won't retract the offer or anything. And even if they did, you probably wouldn't want to work for them in the long run, so would be doing you a favor.