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Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't c

by raducu 6y ago

Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority so you'll be more likely to appease the Alpha members of the group. So what? How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

nerdponx 6y ago
A combination of targeted therapy and short courses of drugs designed to ease the therapy process and control symptoms in the short term?
- InfiniteRand 6y ago
  In my experience most psychiatrists recommend some form of talk therapy in addition to medication and my impression is that the consensus view is medications + therapy are more effective than either by themselves (also recommended are exercising , sleeping well, and other general health stuff most doctors lecture their patients about)
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  What you you suggest doctors do when short term treatment regimens become decades long? If only the symptoms are treated it is illogical to expect the condition to go away. In fact, it's likely to get worse.
- raducu 6y ago
  That is also common knowledge and practice. My point when I said it is not actionable -- was that removing adversity is actually impossible most of the time, the therapist/psychiatrist has to give the client/patient the tools so he can help himself out, to better cope with adversity. The therapist knows you're anxious because you had shitty parents, because you have a shitty boss and so on and so on, but that knowledge in itself is not actionable. It would be great if we all stopped being pricks to one another, make a big circle and hug eachother, but since that's not going to happen anytime soon, we have to learn how to cope with adversity.
pessimizer 6y ago
> What is the alternative to drugs? A social safety net. A society that thinks providing the communication resources and facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests is as important as providing highways. > How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient? You don't have to be a doctor to dispense pills. You can always anesthetize people who are panicking, but I'm not sure that should be called "treatment." Talking therapy probably works because it's the opportunity to talk to someone with no ulterior motives at length about your problems. We could provide that.
- gowld 6y ago
  > facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests We have that. It's even called a highway! The information superhighway. It hasn't cured depression and anxiety, and may have worsened it.
- raducu 6y ago
  > A social safety net. I believe this would be great. But perhaps not, perhaps this was only in the what Ovid calls the Golden Age -- perhaps small communities of hunter-gatherers, perhaps never in the way we imagined. But I don't see this happening unless we revert to much smaller communities. I think we could realistically cut world military spending by 90% before we could offer everybody that social safety net. So we DO need pills, because we cannot realistically offer 1 in X the support they need, the best we can do is offer pills that work long enough that they help themselves or some psychotherapy. Psychotherapy can be greatly helped in a lot of cases by pills. I have seen the light when I started experimenting with drugs(illegal and legal) -- it is such an incredible release to know you have the power to change your mental state, even if chemically. Having a Xanax in my walled, completely stopped my panic attacks, I haven't had one in years.
tokai 6y ago
> A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority Not true. It can give a fatalistic outlook and raise aggression. I know a (depressed) guy that almost got himself killed in traffic, because he would rather die than yielding to a pushy road user.
themgt 6y ago
I would look at other fields of medicine, e.g. research around how certain diets and fasting protocols can reverse metabolic syndrome and type-ii diabetes along with a variety of other positive health benefits. So what is a major focus of research? Finding ways to isolate/synthesize specific compounds to make a patentable drug that can be given in lieu of patients making lifestyle changes, because a) you can't patent a lifestyle change and put it in a pill and make billions of dollars off it and b) because patients are generally assumed to be unwilling/unable to make the lifestyle changes. So, "how would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?" is perhaps the wrong question, because it won't because the doctor isn't interested or trained nor has the time to guide a person through a lifestyle change. It nonetheless may be very relevant to you in deciding whether you'd rather be on insulin for the rest of your life vs. finding a way to lose weight. Just as it may be helpful for you to consider whether makes changes to lower/resolve sources of stress and anxiety in your life is a better option for managing mental distress than being on an SSRI/benzo indefinitely. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the AstraZeneca "how to be happy without psychopharmaceuticals" guide to living.
ISaIF73 6y ago
> What is the alternative to drugs? Another one is lifestyle intervention. Gut problems for example may lead to depression, as gut is an important factor in neurotransmitter production. Metabolic problems will lead to lowered levels of energy. The chronic disease epidemic is real. Depression may come for many different reasons, and the underlying factor should be looked for

by raducu 6y ago

nerdponx 6y ago

A combination of targeted therapy and short courses of drugs designed to ease the therapy process and control symptoms in the short term?

InfiniteRand 6y ago
In my experience most psychiatrists recommend some form of talk therapy in addition to medication and my impression is that the consensus view is medications + therapy are more effective than either by themselves (also recommended are exercising , sleeping well, and other general health stuff most doctors lecture their patients about)
Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
What you you suggest doctors do when short term treatment regimens become decades long? If only the symptoms are treated it is illogical to expect the condition to go away. In fact, it's likely to get worse.
raducu 6y ago
That is also common knowledge and practice. My point when I said it is not actionable -- was that removing adversity is actually impossible most of the time, the therapist/psychiatrist has to give the client/patient the tools so he can help himself out, to better cope with adversity. The therapist knows you're anxious because you had shitty parents, because you have a shitty boss and so on and so on, but that knowledge in itself is not actionable. It would be great if we all stopped being pricks to one another, make a big circle and hug eachother, but since that's not going to happen anytime soon, we have to learn how to cope with adversity.

pessimizer 6y ago

> What is the alternative to drugs? A social safety net. A society that thinks providing the communication resources and facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests is as important as providing highways. > How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient? You don't have to be a doctor to dispense pills. You can always anesthetize people who are panicking, but I'm not sure that should be called "treatment." Talking therapy probably works because it's the opportunity to talk to someone with no ulterior motives at length about your problems. We could provide that.

gowld 6y ago
> facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests We have that. It's even called a highway! The information superhighway. It hasn't cured depression and anxiety, and may have worsened it.
raducu 6y ago
> A social safety net. I believe this would be great. But perhaps not, perhaps this was only in the what Ovid calls the Golden Age -- perhaps small communities of hunter-gatherers, perhaps never in the way we imagined. But I don't see this happening unless we revert to much smaller communities. I think we could realistically cut world military spending by 90% before we could offer everybody that social safety net. So we DO need pills, because we cannot realistically offer 1 in X the support they need, the best we can do is offer pills that work long enough that they help themselves or some psychotherapy. Psychotherapy can be greatly helped in a lot of cases by pills. I have seen the light when I started experimenting with drugs(illegal and legal) -- it is such an incredible release to know you have the power to change your mental state, even if chemically. Having a Xanax in my walled, completely stopped my panic attacks, I haven't had one in years.

tokai 6y ago

> A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority Not true. It can give a fatalistic outlook and raise aggression. I know a (depressed) guy that almost got himself killed in traffic, because he would rather die than yielding to a pushy road user.

themgt 6y ago

I would look at other fields of medicine, e.g. research around how certain diets and fasting protocols can reverse metabolic syndrome and type-ii diabetes along with a variety of other positive health benefits. So what is a major focus of research? Finding ways to isolate/synthesize specific compounds to make a patentable drug that can be given in lieu of patients making lifestyle changes, because a) you can't patent a lifestyle change and put it in a pill and make billions of dollars off it and b) because patients are generally assumed to be unwilling/unable to make the lifestyle changes. So, "how would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?" is perhaps the wrong question, because it won't because the doctor isn't interested or trained nor has the time to guide a person through a lifestyle change. It nonetheless may be very relevant to you in deciding whether you'd rather be on insulin for the rest of your life vs. finding a way to lose weight. Just as it may be helpful for you to consider whether makes changes to lower/resolve sources of stress and anxiety in your life is a better option for managing mental distress than being on an SSRI/benzo indefinitely. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the AstraZeneca "how to be happy without psychopharmaceuticals" guide to living.

ISaIF73 6y ago

> What is the alternative to drugs? Another one is lifestyle intervention. Gut problems for example may lead to depression, as gut is an important factor in neurotransmitter production. Metabolic problems will lead to lowered levels of energy. The chronic disease epidemic is real. Depression may come for many different reasons, and the underlying factor should be looked for