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Ketones kick in a no-carb diet/fasting: so this can be connected to the knowledge that calorie restriction extends lifespan: both this supplement and calorie re

Ketones kick in a no-carb diet/fasting: so this can be connected to the knowledge that calorie restriction extends lifespan: both this supplement and calorie restrictions have ketone production/supplementation in common, so perhaps life "extension" has ketons at its root.

qeternity 6y ago
The human body can actually consume a fair number of carbs and still be in ketosis. I think of the big marketing problems that ketogenic diets have is the perception that it’s “no carb” which makes it almost impossible in modern life (oh no, I have a work lunch and everything has some small amount of carbs).
- GordonS 6y ago
  Can it? I haven't read on the specifics for a while, but I thought most people had to stay lower than 20g of carbs per day to stay in ketosis?
- ISaIF73 6y ago
  What do you consider a fair amount of carbs? From what I remember, endurance athletes could stay in ketosis with around 100g of carbs daily, however this is not relatable for an average person. Another important fact is that on zero-carb diet with protein intake on athletic level (2-2.5g/bw_kg) you are in a moderate ketosis because of gluconeogenesis, which is a good thing according to Paul Saladino. On the impossibility of zero-carb in modern life I have to say that it is completely false. I am on a carnivore diet myself now and eat close to none carbohydrates and I find it much more easy and sustainable than doing clean omnivore diet. I just got into habit of preparing my food based on muscle and organ meat at home and bring it with myself to work or wherever I'm going. Even if I didn't I can get cheese or some nuts from the shop sporadically. Dramatically lowered hunger cravings and stable levels of energy help a lot.
  - pizza234 6y ago
    > On the impossibility of zero-carb in modern life I have to say that it is completely false It's not impossible in a strict sense of course. One essentially removes food (in the enjoyment sense) from life; meat/nuts only (or "pretty much only") is appealing in the short term, then it becomes limiting/disgusting. I did keto for a short term. If it works for you good, certainly, but it puts a lot of pressure, and it become the "fighting gravity" class of pressure. At some point one will stop, and balloon. I'm curious also, how old are you and how long have you been following this diet.
    - ISaIF73 6y ago
      > One essentially removes food (in the enjoyment sense) from life Absolutely false for me. Personally I enjoy no food more than a big steak. Definitely there is more of the satiation factor than in plant based meal, especially in something like steak with liver mincemeat. Ton of nutriets. > I'm curious also, how old are you and how long have you been following this diet. 6 month carnivorish keto with some nuts, 4 months pretty strict carnivore (garlic and onion added to meat, sometimes coffee, that's it)
      - meowzero 6y ago
        > 6 month carnivorish keto with some nuts, 4 months pretty strict carnivore (garlic and onion added to meat, sometimes coffee, that's it) To be pedantic, including onions, nuts, or garlic isn’t the carnivore diet. Onion especially has a ton of sugar. So by your case, you kinda proved OP’s point about the difficulty of eliminating carbs in everyday life.
        ISaIF73 6y ago
        Onion has 9.3g carbs per 100g [1]. I add few small slices, no more than 1/4 average onion, so that ~30g of onion and 3g of carbs. Absolutely meaningless. I add that just for the taste and it is an amount that does not have any serious effect. I ate small but significant amount of nuts before, but not now so that's also not a factor now. You may consider that 99% carnivore diet and that's absolutely ok. Another thing is that carnivore diet is not vegan-like in its choice of food products. It's all about health benefits and adding minimal amounts of vegetables that someone has no problem with isn't a big deal. On carbs on carnivore: Honey is also considered as an animal product by most carnivore people and it has a lot of carbs obviosly. [1] https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2501/2 https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetabl...
- itsoktocry 6y ago
  >I think of the big marketing problems that ketogenic diets have is the perception that it’s “no carb” Which is odd, because I don't know any that market themselves as "no carb". Ketogenic usually means "low-carb, high-fat", with low-carb being anything from 20-50g of carbs a day, to alternating none on some days vs normal other days. I think the truly shocking thing to most people is just how many carbs they consume in a day when they measure their intake. I'm sure it feels like "no carb".
- actuator 6y ago
  Was there any reason that keto diets became popular? In my personal experience a diet high in proteins with overall calorific deficit works the best. Carbs seem to keep me more energetic, workouts are better and I have much more options on what I can eat. I have seen it being quoted that Keto's effectiveness has been proved but is it any better than a balanced high protein diet.
  - narag 6y ago
    Keto, in any of its multiple incarnations, works. That's why it became popular. I just lost 20 kg if you like anecdotes. I first heard about it in the 70's when it became popular in Spain. That time it was called Atkins. It has always been controversial and there has been a lot of disinformation about it. If you want to see an example look in Wikipedia the difference in tone between articles about Atkins or ketogenic diets and ketosis itself. While ketosis seems like a regular metabolic process as any other, anything about the diets is pictured as controversial and pseudoscientific, even if it's just based on ketosis. I just stopped caring. The diet itself is much easier to follow now than it seems. There are tons of information in the web, a lot of products and carbs tables. In particular, what I do now different is using a lot more of vegetal food: avocados, broccoli, salads and less protein, but still some unprocessed beef, poultry or fish every day. Erytritol is nicer to my guts than other sweeteners, too. Oh, and don't forget vitamins supplements, specially B1 to accelerate metabolism, but the more complete the better. I exercise regularly with no problems, gaining some muscle at the same time that I lost fat. And my last blood analysis gave some superb numbers. Edit: protein shakes that I bought for the gym are also a nice trick.
    - zwaps 6y ago
      I lost 40kg without Keto.
    - meowzero 6y ago
      Keto “works” (which I assume you mean for weight loss) because it helps people get into a caloric deficit easier. High fat and moderate protein is highly satiating and helps people to eat fewer calories without needing to track calories closely. Of course, it’s also possible to gain weight if you eat at caloric surplus in Keto. Also, since carbs are virtually eliminated, most of the weight loss in the beginning is water and glycogen. Gaining muscle while losing fat is possible in a regular diet. That’s called newbie gains. And since you lost weight, your blood numbers improved. Since keto works for you, it’s great. But I wanted to clarify that your result is not specially because of the keto diet. It can be achieved with just about any diet.

qeternity 6y ago

The human body can actually consume a fair number of carbs and still be in ketosis. I think of the big marketing problems that ketogenic diets have is the perception that it’s “no carb” which makes it almost impossible in modern life (oh no, I have a work lunch and everything has some small amount of carbs).

GordonS 6y ago
Can it? I haven't read on the specifics for a while, but I thought most people had to stay lower than 20g of carbs per day to stay in ketosis?
ISaIF73 6y ago
What do you consider a fair amount of carbs? From what I remember, endurance athletes could stay in ketosis with around 100g of carbs daily, however this is not relatable for an average person. Another important fact is that on zero-carb diet with protein intake on athletic level (2-2.5g/bw_kg) you are in a moderate ketosis because of gluconeogenesis, which is a good thing according to Paul Saladino. On the impossibility of zero-carb in modern life I have to say that it is completely false. I am on a carnivore diet myself now and eat close to none carbohydrates and I find it much more easy and sustainable than doing clean omnivore diet. I just got into habit of preparing my food based on muscle and organ meat at home and bring it with myself to work or wherever I'm going. Even if I didn't I can get cheese or some nuts from the shop sporadically. Dramatically lowered hunger cravings and stable levels of energy help a lot.
- pizza234 6y ago
  > On the impossibility of zero-carb in modern life I have to say that it is completely false It's not impossible in a strict sense of course. One essentially removes food (in the enjoyment sense) from life; meat/nuts only (or "pretty much only") is appealing in the short term, then it becomes limiting/disgusting. I did keto for a short term. If it works for you good, certainly, but it puts a lot of pressure, and it become the "fighting gravity" class of pressure. At some point one will stop, and balloon. I'm curious also, how old are you and how long have you been following this diet.
  - ISaIF73 6y ago
    > One essentially removes food (in the enjoyment sense) from life Absolutely false for me. Personally I enjoy no food more than a big steak. Definitely there is more of the satiation factor than in plant based meal, especially in something like steak with liver mincemeat. Ton of nutriets. > I'm curious also, how old are you and how long have you been following this diet. 6 month carnivorish keto with some nuts, 4 months pretty strict carnivore (garlic and onion added to meat, sometimes coffee, that's it)
    - meowzero 6y ago
      > 6 month carnivorish keto with some nuts, 4 months pretty strict carnivore (garlic and onion added to meat, sometimes coffee, that's it) To be pedantic, including onions, nuts, or garlic isn’t the carnivore diet. Onion especially has a ton of sugar. So by your case, you kinda proved OP’s point about the difficulty of eliminating carbs in everyday life.
      - ISaIF73 6y ago
        Onion has 9.3g carbs per 100g [1]. I add few small slices, no more than 1/4 average onion, so that ~30g of onion and 3g of carbs. Absolutely meaningless. I add that just for the taste and it is an amount that does not have any serious effect. I ate small but significant amount of nuts before, but not now so that's also not a factor now. You may consider that 99% carnivore diet and that's absolutely ok. Another thing is that carnivore diet is not vegan-like in its choice of food products. It's all about health benefits and adding minimal amounts of vegetables that someone has no problem with isn't a big deal. On carbs on carnivore: Honey is also considered as an animal product by most carnivore people and it has a lot of carbs obviosly. [1] https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2501/2 https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetabl...
itsoktocry 6y ago
>I think of the big marketing problems that ketogenic diets have is the perception that it’s “no carb” Which is odd, because I don't know any that market themselves as "no carb". Ketogenic usually means "low-carb, high-fat", with low-carb being anything from 20-50g of carbs a day, to alternating none on some days vs normal other days. I think the truly shocking thing to most people is just how many carbs they consume in a day when they measure their intake. I'm sure it feels like "no carb".
actuator 6y ago
Was there any reason that keto diets became popular? In my personal experience a diet high in proteins with overall calorific deficit works the best. Carbs seem to keep me more energetic, workouts are better and I have much more options on what I can eat. I have seen it being quoted that Keto's effectiveness has been proved but is it any better than a balanced high protein diet.
- narag 6y ago
  Keto, in any of its multiple incarnations, works. That's why it became popular. I just lost 20 kg if you like anecdotes. I first heard about it in the 70's when it became popular in Spain. That time it was called Atkins. It has always been controversial and there has been a lot of disinformation about it. If you want to see an example look in Wikipedia the difference in tone between articles about Atkins or ketogenic diets and ketosis itself. While ketosis seems like a regular metabolic process as any other, anything about the diets is pictured as controversial and pseudoscientific, even if it's just based on ketosis. I just stopped caring. The diet itself is much easier to follow now than it seems. There are tons of information in the web, a lot of products and carbs tables. In particular, what I do now different is using a lot more of vegetal food: avocados, broccoli, salads and less protein, but still some unprocessed beef, poultry or fish every day. Erytritol is nicer to my guts than other sweeteners, too. Oh, and don't forget vitamins supplements, specially B1 to accelerate metabolism, but the more complete the better. I exercise regularly with no problems, gaining some muscle at the same time that I lost fat. And my last blood analysis gave some superb numbers. Edit: protein shakes that I bought for the gym are also a nice trick.
  - zwaps 6y ago
    I lost 40kg without Keto.
  - meowzero 6y ago
    Keto “works” (which I assume you mean for weight loss) because it helps people get into a caloric deficit easier. High fat and moderate protein is highly satiating and helps people to eat fewer calories without needing to track calories closely. Of course, it’s also possible to gain weight if you eat at caloric surplus in Keto. Also, since carbs are virtually eliminated, most of the weight loss in the beginning is water and glycogen. Gaining muscle while losing fat is possible in a regular diet. That’s called newbie gains. And since you lost weight, your blood numbers improved. Since keto works for you, it’s great. But I wanted to clarify that your result is not specially because of the keto diet. It can be achieved with just about any diet.