4 ms·

Hofpfisterei is a chain of bakery shops, headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. Its business focuses on southern Germany. It has 163 branches and employs ab

by fxj 6y ago

Hofpfisterei is a chain of bakery shops, headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. Its business focuses on southern Germany. It has 163 branches and employs about 950 people. Its history reaches back to the year 1331 when the mill Toratsmühle was mentioned for the first time. It must have existed before that date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofpfisterei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofpfisterei

jansan 6y ago
I once talked to a farmer south of Munich who claimed to have documents showing that his farm belonged to his family since the early 12th century. Society must have been really stable there for a long time. Also, he told me that he is very unhappy with high land prices around Munich. He could be a multi-millionaire immediately by selling his land, but his familiy tradition does not allow this. Due to the high land prices, if he gives a small part of the land to his daughter to build a house, he must sell another part to pay the property sales tax (not sure I understood this correctly).
- fock 6y ago
  no, no and no. For the last part: gifting to family in Germany is so very cheap and in the case of land nearly unrelated to actual worth. Second he could sell it at a low price and - if this is price is not lower than, what municipalities, she had to buy 3% tax. Even better: put it into a company, load on debt for the house and do a share deal (some thousands for lawyers but definitely inheritance tax free)
- fxj 6y ago
  Japan has the most stable environment for companies. In the list of the oldest 5 worldwide the japanese companies were founded in 578 until 771 AD, which makes them more than 1400 years old! According to a report published by the Bank of Korea in 2008 that looked at 41 countries, there were 5,586 companies older than 200 years. 3,146 (56%) are in Japan 837 (15%) in Germany 222 (4%) in the Netherlands 196 (3%) in France Of the companies with more than 100 years of history, most of them (89%) employ fewer than 300 people. A nationwide Japanese survey counted more than 21,000 companies older than 100 years as of September 30, 2009. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
  - jansan 6y ago
    The list contains a few pharmacies from the 14th century that are still in business. Quite impressive, I really wonder what they were selling more than 600 years ago.
  - thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
    I wonder if this is because of mixed, pedestrian-friendly zoning. In the UK it's equal effort to drive to a supermarket as it is to walk to a 'local' shop.
  - jandrese 6y ago
    Japan had some advantages in this regard. Being a fairly small nation it was possible to centrally administer it without the government splintering every couple of decades. Being an island nation meant they were difficult to invade. The final point in their favor was a rigid political hierarchy that discouraged mid-level officials from getting too ambitious unlike Europe.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > Society must have been really stable there for a long time. > South of Munich Bavaria is interesting; I was wondering how it would have fared as the various armies swept Europe in those eight centuries - Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War, and so on, but Bavaria seems to have been astonishing stable apart from a few incursions by Sweden and Napoleon. Per wikipedia, "The Wittelsbach dynasty ruled Bavaria without interruption from 1180AD until 1918AD."
  - fsloth 6y ago
    Basically entire Europe was a warzone from the end of the Roman period to... oh, Ukraine.. well, Europe still is a warzone but much less so now than in the past centuries. The middle ages wars didn't really involve the population. They were more a matter of aristocracy. Cities were raized, since those where the way to control land, but you generally left the peasants and their lords alone. Peasants really didn't care who was the king. Nationalism was not a concept yet! Somebody was your liege lord since feudal competition abhors vacuum, but you didn't have much say in it. He probably didn't even speak your language. They way medieval states handled their state business was that more or less, you had the king, the king had a large box called the "treasury", and then the aristocrats who had bent the knee for the king brought taxes to that box. These barons and whatnots then extracted some surplus from the land as taxes for themselves, and for the king. But this was really inefficient in pre-bureaucratic times! The state could maybe utilize 1 percent of the output since nobody knew how much a person produced, so everything was very, very, approximate. So basically the 'state' and the 'people' were quite disconnected, and wars mostly affected the 'state' and not the people that much. Wars really were a way to extend policy - which meant basically kings competed from what area they could command the nobility to carry taxes for them. There was none of this 'total war' business. There were no industries to destroy, no population whose morale to pummel - since the morale of the population did not matter!
    - overkalix 6y ago
      > wars mostly affected the 'state' and not the people that much How do you exactly think armies are fed, armed, and paid? There are innumerable examples of revolts ignited due to the abuses of the local or occupying army. This idea of "limited" warfare where a king took a few men and fought it out with his rival with the population not caring or suffering much is utterly deluded.
082349872349872 6y ago
That beats the documented history of the pre-1371[1] https://www.baeren-muensingen.ch https://www.baeren-muensingen.ch (although I don't put much stock in the Napoleon story) "Bavarians can do anything[2] — except speak German" Akkadakka nach bayerischer Art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4 PS. Fasching means Münich is part of the civilised world (as if the Limes weren't enough?). Ändä miini Miinig! [1] The oldest venue where I've ever played a gig was built ca. 130. [2] You all even have us beat for dialect wikipedia articles: 31.381 https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoamseitn https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoamseitn 27'293 https://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Houptsyte https://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Houptsyte

by fxj 6y ago

jansan 6y ago

I once talked to a farmer south of Munich who claimed to have documents showing that his farm belonged to his family since the early 12th century. Society must have been really stable there for a long time. Also, he told me that he is very unhappy with high land prices around Munich. He could be a multi-millionaire immediately by selling his land, but his familiy tradition does not allow this. Due to the high land prices, if he gives a small part of the land to his daughter to build a house, he must sell another part to pay the property sales tax (not sure I understood this correctly).

fock 6y ago
no, no and no. For the last part: gifting to family in Germany is so very cheap and in the case of land nearly unrelated to actual worth. Second he could sell it at a low price and - if this is price is not lower than, what municipalities, she had to buy 3% tax. Even better: put it into a company, load on debt for the house and do a share deal (some thousands for lawyers but definitely inheritance tax free)
fxj 6y ago
Japan has the most stable environment for companies. In the list of the oldest 5 worldwide the japanese companies were founded in 578 until 771 AD, which makes them more than 1400 years old! According to a report published by the Bank of Korea in 2008 that looked at 41 countries, there were 5,586 companies older than 200 years. 3,146 (56%) are in Japan 837 (15%) in Germany 222 (4%) in the Netherlands 196 (3%) in France Of the companies with more than 100 years of history, most of them (89%) employ fewer than 300 people. A nationwide Japanese survey counted more than 21,000 companies older than 100 years as of September 30, 2009. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
- jansan 6y ago
  The list contains a few pharmacies from the 14th century that are still in business. Quite impressive, I really wonder what they were selling more than 600 years ago.
- thrwyoilarticle 6y ago
  I wonder if this is because of mixed, pedestrian-friendly zoning. In the UK it's equal effort to drive to a supermarket as it is to walk to a 'local' shop.
- jandrese 6y ago
  Japan had some advantages in this regard. Being a fairly small nation it was possible to centrally administer it without the government splintering every couple of decades. Being an island nation meant they were difficult to invade. The final point in their favor was a rigid political hierarchy that discouraged mid-level officials from getting too ambitious unlike Europe.
pjc50 6y ago
> Society must have been really stable there for a long time. > South of Munich Bavaria is interesting; I was wondering how it would have fared as the various armies swept Europe in those eight centuries - Thirty Years War, Hundred Years War, and so on, but Bavaria seems to have been astonishing stable apart from a few incursions by Sweden and Napoleon. Per wikipedia, "The Wittelsbach dynasty ruled Bavaria without interruption from 1180AD until 1918AD."
- fsloth 6y ago
  Basically entire Europe was a warzone from the end of the Roman period to... oh, Ukraine.. well, Europe still is a warzone but much less so now than in the past centuries. The middle ages wars didn't really involve the population. They were more a matter of aristocracy. Cities were raized, since those where the way to control land, but you generally left the peasants and their lords alone. Peasants really didn't care who was the king. Nationalism was not a concept yet! Somebody was your liege lord since feudal competition abhors vacuum, but you didn't have much say in it. He probably didn't even speak your language. They way medieval states handled their state business was that more or less, you had the king, the king had a large box called the "treasury", and then the aristocrats who had bent the knee for the king brought taxes to that box. These barons and whatnots then extracted some surplus from the land as taxes for themselves, and for the king. But this was really inefficient in pre-bureaucratic times! The state could maybe utilize 1 percent of the output since nobody knew how much a person produced, so everything was very, very, approximate. So basically the 'state' and the 'people' were quite disconnected, and wars mostly affected the 'state' and not the people that much. Wars really were a way to extend policy - which meant basically kings competed from what area they could command the nobility to carry taxes for them. There was none of this 'total war' business. There were no industries to destroy, no population whose morale to pummel - since the morale of the population did not matter!
  - overkalix 6y ago
    > wars mostly affected the 'state' and not the people that much How do you exactly think armies are fed, armed, and paid? There are innumerable examples of revolts ignited due to the abuses of the local or occupying army. This idea of "limited" warfare where a king took a few men and fought it out with his rival with the population not caring or suffering much is utterly deluded.

082349872349872 6y ago

That beats the documented history of the pre-1371[1] https://www.baeren-muensingen.ch https://www.baeren-muensingen.ch (although I don't put much stock in the Napoleon story) "Bavarians can do anything[2] — except speak German" Akkadakka nach bayerischer Art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4 PS. Fasching means Münich is part of the civilised world (as if the Limes weren't enough?). Ändä miini Miinig! [1] The oldest venue where I've ever played a gig was built ca. 130. [2] You all even have us beat for dialect wikipedia articles: 31.381 https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoamseitn https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoamseitn 27'293 https://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Houptsyte https://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Houptsyte