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Java programmers commenting on this story seem to be claiming that Ruby is a messy language and hard to grow a team around, while Java somehow solves all these

by Sapient 15y ago

Java programmers commenting on this story seem to be claiming that Ruby is a messy language and hard to grow a team around, while Java somehow solves all these problems, yet I see only anecdotal evidence and opinion to back this claim up. One thing I cant remember ever having read is a horror story about people taking over a legacy Rails app, while those stories seem to be fairly common when talking about Java apps. Seems to me that, for the most part, people who know Ruby and Rails have taught themselves, while sub-par and mediocre Java programmers are produced in their hundreds, fresh from their first programming experience in college. Seems logical to me then that its going to be far easier to get experienced Ruby programmers than to get experienced Java programmers.

guelo 15y ago
There are crappy developers everywhere, if your team is full of them then the language doesn't matter.
eropple 15y ago
Horror stories about legacy Rails apps? I have a couple, though not "taking over" them but rather fleeing from them. (My employer is in the process of replacing a home-built Rails-based code review tool with Review Board, and I've looked at that tool's code - it couldn't be rehabilitated if you tried. To be fair, it was a weekend project that spiraled out of control...but that in itself is saying something.) Bad code can be written in any language or on any framework. I would suggest, however, that when at larger scales, there are significant benefits to a more restrictive language and tool set. I write Java at work, and while there are cases where it's not as expressive as I'd like (s'why I write my own code in C#, which is as expressive as I'd like), reducing the ability of developers to Do Stupid Things is, to me, a very large plus. The claim that people who know Ruby and Rails have taught themselves--well, no shit, right? I taught myself Java, too. And C#. And PHP, Python, Ruby, and half a dozen other languages. Of course sub-par and mediocre Java developers are churned out by college. So what? Hire ones who aren't. And if you give it ten years (assuming the Rails fad has legs--I'm skeptical, but just for argument's sake let's assume it's not) colleges will be churning out mediocre Ruby hacks just as well. Your comment reads as fanboyism and not much more.

by Sapient 15y ago

guelo 15y ago

There are crappy developers everywhere, if your team is full of them then the language doesn't matter.

eropple 15y ago

Horror stories about legacy Rails apps? I have a couple, though not "taking over" them but rather fleeing from them. (My employer is in the process of replacing a home-built Rails-based code review tool with Review Board, and I've looked at that tool's code - it couldn't be rehabilitated if you tried. To be fair, it was a weekend project that spiraled out of control...but that in itself is saying something.) Bad code can be written in any language or on any framework. I would suggest, however, that when at larger scales, there are significant benefits to a more restrictive language and tool set. I write Java at work, and while there are cases where it's not as expressive as I'd like (s'why I write my own code in C#, which is as expressive as I'd like), reducing the ability of developers to Do Stupid Things is, to me, a very large plus. The claim that people who know Ruby and Rails have taught themselves--well, no shit, right? I taught myself Java, too. And C#. And PHP, Python, Ruby, and half a dozen other languages. Of course sub-par and mediocre Java developers are churned out by college. So what? Hire ones who aren't. And if you give it ten years (assuming the Rails fad has legs--I'm skeptical, but just for argument's sake let's assume it's not) colleges will be churning out mediocre Ruby hacks just as well. Your comment reads as fanboyism and not much more.