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If. You forgot the "if". It is extremely easy to get out of police incidents with social skills and high-quality ability to manipulate people if you happen to

by bena 6y ago

If. You forgot the "if". It is extremely easy to get out of police incidents with social skills and high-quality ability to manipulate people if you happen to be a white male. So while justice may be a game to you, to a significant portion of the American public, it's a game they've already lost. Ask a black family and a white family what "the talk" means. You will get two answers. For white families, "the talk" is about sex. For black families, "the talk" is about how you might just killed because your skin is a little too dark to be walking in certain areas. The talk is about how to keep your hands visible at all times when you have any encounter with police. The talk is about how you will be treated as less than other people, you cannot let that ever make you angry, never let it cause your voice to raise, to always be conciliatory. Because you might get killed. So I'm glad you find it interesting. It still needs to be fixed.

nervousvarun 6y ago
Wow anecdotal is anecdotal but I'm white and definitely got that "Talk" from my dad when I was 15 and a permit driver (US). He got very serious and said "son: 1) Never take make any sudden movements when a cop is approaching your car 2) Don't reach for your wallet until he asks you to. 3) Always say "Yes sir" or "Yes Mam" 4) Keep your hands in your lap or on the wheel where he can see them." I distinctly remember talking with friends and they got the same talk. We were all white, suburban kids in the southern US. I still basically do all 4 of those things anytime I'm pulled over (don't speed and haven't pulled over in prob 20 years but I know I would still act that way). Police are definitely out of hand in this country but now genuinely curious how many people get this parental "talk" by race.
- modoc 6y ago
  Anecdotal as well, by myself, and all my peers (white, rural, Northeast) got the exact same talk. Hands on steering wheel, no sudden movements, announce “I’m going to reach into my pocket/glovebox/etc..” before moving your hands at all, be polite, be respectful, you can always fight in court later.
- lifeformed 6y ago
  Well, you probably don't get the other part of the talk though: "The talk is about how you will be treated as less than other people, you cannot let that ever make you angry, never let it cause your voice to raise, to always be conciliatory. Because you might get killed."
  - exolymph 6y ago
    The cops shoot white people too, you know. A heartbreaking example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shoo...
    - gowld 6y ago
      That was a horrific crime committed by a psychopath. That's nothing compared to the systemic comprehensive demonization of black men and boys by police, prosecutors, judges, and civilians.
    - lifeformed 6y ago
      No one is claiming otherwise. It's disingenuous to take a real-life issue ("cops kill black people disproportionately") and strawman it by applying a cutoff filter to it ("cops only kill black people"). It's like responding to "smoking kills" with "but my grandma smokes and is still alive".
- scarface74 6y ago
  Was part of that talk not to run from the store to your car in the rain if you are Black living in a mostly White part of town because people think it is suspicious? Was part of that talk, don’t walk down the street with your other Black friend to meet your classmates after a basketball game to the Waffle House because it looks suspicious unless you have your White friends with you? Did you ever have to be careful walking in your own neighborhood because you “don’t look like you belong”?
mortenjorck 6y ago
Some perspective. 114 unarmed Americans were killed by police in 2019. [1] While any number other than zero is unacceptable, that is also 0.000035% of the US population, or a one in 2.8 million chance. If you are African-American, that goes up to a one in 1.5 million chance – also unacceptable, while at the same time a vanishingly rare occurrence. You are 328 times – that's 32,800% – more likely to die of suicide than to be killed by police. You are 733 times more likely to die of diabetes than you are to be killed by police. Police reform in the US is absolutely needed. But suicide prevention and healthy eating are objectively much greater problems that need solving, and are at very least worth as much of "a talk" with developing children. [1] https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
- gowld 6y ago
  I can choose not to eat sugar. I can't choose not the get shot by the police. Diabete also kills at a much later average age than police. Also, getting killed is only one hard-to-hide extreme flavor of police brutality. There are also beatings, rapes, and theft (both civil forfeiture and simple banditry).
- james-mcelwain 6y ago
  These statistics don't include all the discriminatory interactions with the police that don't end in death. Being killed by the police is only one way that racialized policing can have a disparate effect on policed populations.
- bena 6y ago
  This sort of argument is just straight up bullshit. We already dedicate resources to suicide and diabetes prevention. We do not have to wait for them to be 0 before we look at the problems with the police force. You are also using percentage of the total population. Rather than percentage of police interactions. Why, because you know that second number is really bad. Because very few people interact with the police every day. But, you know, I'm glad you agree that it's a real problem.

by bena 6y ago

nervousvarun 6y ago

Wow anecdotal is anecdotal but I'm white and definitely got that "Talk" from my dad when I was 15 and a permit driver (US). He got very serious and said "son: 1) Never take make any sudden movements when a cop is approaching your car 2) Don't reach for your wallet until he asks you to. 3) Always say "Yes sir" or "Yes Mam" 4) Keep your hands in your lap or on the wheel where he can see them." I distinctly remember talking with friends and they got the same talk. We were all white, suburban kids in the southern US. I still basically do all 4 of those things anytime I'm pulled over (don't speed and haven't pulled over in prob 20 years but I know I would still act that way). Police are definitely out of hand in this country but now genuinely curious how many people get this parental "talk" by race.

modoc 6y ago
Anecdotal as well, by myself, and all my peers (white, rural, Northeast) got the exact same talk. Hands on steering wheel, no sudden movements, announce “I’m going to reach into my pocket/glovebox/etc..” before moving your hands at all, be polite, be respectful, you can always fight in court later.
lifeformed 6y ago
Well, you probably don't get the other part of the talk though: "The talk is about how you will be treated as less than other people, you cannot let that ever make you angry, never let it cause your voice to raise, to always be conciliatory. Because you might get killed."
- exolymph 6y ago
  The cops shoot white people too, you know. A heartbreaking example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver#Shoo...
  - gowld 6y ago
    That was a horrific crime committed by a psychopath. That's nothing compared to the systemic comprehensive demonization of black men and boys by police, prosecutors, judges, and civilians.
  - lifeformed 6y ago
    No one is claiming otherwise. It's disingenuous to take a real-life issue ("cops kill black people disproportionately") and strawman it by applying a cutoff filter to it ("cops only kill black people"). It's like responding to "smoking kills" with "but my grandma smokes and is still alive".
scarface74 6y ago
Was part of that talk not to run from the store to your car in the rain if you are Black living in a mostly White part of town because people think it is suspicious? Was part of that talk, don’t walk down the street with your other Black friend to meet your classmates after a basketball game to the Waffle House because it looks suspicious unless you have your White friends with you? Did you ever have to be careful walking in your own neighborhood because you “don’t look like you belong”?

mortenjorck 6y ago

Some perspective. 114 unarmed Americans were killed by police in 2019. [1] While any number other than zero is unacceptable, that is also 0.000035% of the US population, or a one in 2.8 million chance. If you are African-American, that goes up to a one in 1.5 million chance – also unacceptable, while at the same time a vanishingly rare occurrence. You are 328 times – that's 32,800% – more likely to die of suicide than to be killed by police. You are 733 times more likely to die of diabetes than you are to be killed by police. Police reform in the US is absolutely needed. But suicide prevention and healthy eating are objectively much greater problems that need solving, and are at very least worth as much of "a talk" with developing children. [1] https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

gowld 6y ago
I can choose not to eat sugar. I can't choose not the get shot by the police. Diabete also kills at a much later average age than police. Also, getting killed is only one hard-to-hide extreme flavor of police brutality. There are also beatings, rapes, and theft (both civil forfeiture and simple banditry).
james-mcelwain 6y ago
These statistics don't include all the discriminatory interactions with the police that don't end in death. Being killed by the police is only one way that racialized policing can have a disparate effect on policed populations.
bena 6y ago
This sort of argument is just straight up bullshit. We already dedicate resources to suicide and diabetes prevention. We do not have to wait for them to be 0 before we look at the problems with the police force. You are also using percentage of the total population. Rather than percentage of police interactions. Why, because you know that second number is really bad. Because very few people interact with the police every day. But, you know, I'm glad you agree that it's a real problem.