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I've always said traffic laws mostly encourage a disregard for the law. I think they should set things like speed limits high enough that there is no reason to

I've always said traffic laws mostly encourage a disregard for the law. I think they should set things like speed limits high enough that there is no reason to break them. They are LIMITS, not normal speed. Maybe post a recommended speed too. If someone breaks the speed limit it should be 30 day license suspension and impounding their vehicle.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
> I think they should set things like speed limits high enough that there is no reason to break them. I mean... that's not why the limit is there. The limit isn't "how fast can you possibly go without feeling out of control", it's "how fast can you possibly safely go". Are they still operating with 20th century cars in mind? Yeah, but it's hard to argue that a school zone should be 60 MPH.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Yeah, but it's hard to argue that a school zone should be 60 MPH. Most people who complain about speed limits are complaining about freeways, not surface streets.
  - toast0 6y ago
    You clearly don't live in a community that likes putting 25 mph signs all over the place.
- pnutjam 6y ago
  We already have pretty draconian enforcement in school zones. And I am arguing for how safe can you safely go, it's just way too low.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    I've heard that it's not the absolute velocity on a freeway that's the issue, but instead the relative velocity of all drivers. A speed limit that all can comfortably hit keeps that to within a much more narrow band than a speed limit that some wouldn't be able to comfortably hit.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      At least in Germany it seems that people routinely drive 100km/h on the same road as people doing 250, and they have fewer fatalities per passenger mile than we do in the US. I would guess it has something to do with the strict adherence to the keep right/pass left rule.
sp332 6y ago
Safe speed varies with weather, time of day, and even the flow of traffic. There's no one number that's going to apply to a given stretch of road all the time.
- RandallBrown 6y ago
  Probably not feasible to do this for every speed limit sign in the country, but there are already variable signs on places like mountain passes that change with the weather and traffic.
- Sebb767 6y ago
  > Safe speed varies with weather, time of day, and even the flow of traffic And by car! A truck or an older SUV will have a far worse breaking distance and does not corner well compared to any sports car or sedan. So even assuming you a perfect situational analysis, you still could not post an exact limit.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Some freeways have two limits, one for semi trucks, one for the rest of traffic. Something like that could be extended to lanes, along with prohibitions (which already exist) of towed trailers in faster lanes.
clairity 6y ago
we don't need the limits, just post the recommended speed. then for any extreme case, it's up to the officer to prove reckless endangerment, which is what speed limits were ostensibly designed to prevent (though practically, it's served many interests, including fuel rationing in the 70s).
- jfk13 6y ago
  So you don't think we have enough selective enforcement already?
  - gpm 6y ago
    It's much better to have selective enforcement of a law that says "this is a judgement call" than to have selective enforcement of a law that says "this is a crime". The latter is literally encouraging the populace to commit crimes. The latter is hard to challenge the selectivity of in court because it is theoretically strict liability. The latter results in the unelected enforcement officials making up the criteria entirely instead of being given criteria by the elected officials.
  - clairity 6y ago
    no, i'm saying reduce instances of selective enforcement by reducing ineffective and needless laws. reckless endangerment is already a crime that's selectively enforced.
KineticLensman 6y ago
> They are LIMITS, not normal speed. In the UK, many drivers view them as targets. Driving under the limit will often lead to tailgating. Especially in overtaking lanes.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  That is by design, at least in some places. In Australia, for example, at least when I got my license, you were explicitly told that you are "required to drive at the maximum possible speed that is: within the posted limit, appropriate for the weather and road conditions, and within your ability to maintain safe control of the vehicle".
rurp 6y ago
I agree and want to add that bad traffic laws can even cause more injury and death. There's research on speed limits that shows that they don't influence actual speeds all that much, people generally drive at what they think is a reasonable speed[0] regardless. But some people do follow them very strictly. So on roads with speed limits that are far too low you get people driving together at very different speeds, which results in more accidents. [0] I can't find the source right now but IIRC in one of the experiments they increased the speed limit by 5 mph on a highway, but the speeds driven only increased by 1 mph.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

> I think they should set things like speed limits high enough that there is no reason to break them. I mean... that's not why the limit is there. The limit isn't "how fast can you possibly go without feeling out of control", it's "how fast can you possibly safely go". Are they still operating with 20th century cars in mind? Yeah, but it's hard to argue that a school zone should be 60 MPH.

nitrogen 6y ago
Yeah, but it's hard to argue that a school zone should be 60 MPH. Most people who complain about speed limits are complaining about freeways, not surface streets.
- toast0 6y ago
  You clearly don't live in a community that likes putting 25 mph signs all over the place.
pnutjam 6y ago
We already have pretty draconian enforcement in school zones. And I am arguing for how safe can you safely go, it's just way too low.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  I've heard that it's not the absolute velocity on a freeway that's the issue, but instead the relative velocity of all drivers. A speed limit that all can comfortably hit keeps that to within a much more narrow band than a speed limit that some wouldn't be able to comfortably hit.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    At least in Germany it seems that people routinely drive 100km/h on the same road as people doing 250, and they have fewer fatalities per passenger mile than we do in the US. I would guess it has something to do with the strict adherence to the keep right/pass left rule.

sp332 6y ago

Safe speed varies with weather, time of day, and even the flow of traffic. There's no one number that's going to apply to a given stretch of road all the time.

RandallBrown 6y ago
Probably not feasible to do this for every speed limit sign in the country, but there are already variable signs on places like mountain passes that change with the weather and traffic.
Sebb767 6y ago
> Safe speed varies with weather, time of day, and even the flow of traffic And by car! A truck or an older SUV will have a far worse breaking distance and does not corner well compared to any sports car or sedan. So even assuming you a perfect situational analysis, you still could not post an exact limit.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Some freeways have two limits, one for semi trucks, one for the rest of traffic. Something like that could be extended to lanes, along with prohibitions (which already exist) of towed trailers in faster lanes.

clairity 6y ago

we don't need the limits, just post the recommended speed. then for any extreme case, it's up to the officer to prove reckless endangerment, which is what speed limits were ostensibly designed to prevent (though practically, it's served many interests, including fuel rationing in the 70s).

jfk13 6y ago
So you don't think we have enough selective enforcement already?
- gpm 6y ago
  It's much better to have selective enforcement of a law that says "this is a judgement call" than to have selective enforcement of a law that says "this is a crime". The latter is literally encouraging the populace to commit crimes. The latter is hard to challenge the selectivity of in court because it is theoretically strict liability. The latter results in the unelected enforcement officials making up the criteria entirely instead of being given criteria by the elected officials.
- clairity 6y ago
  no, i'm saying reduce instances of selective enforcement by reducing ineffective and needless laws. reckless endangerment is already a crime that's selectively enforced.

KineticLensman 6y ago

> They are LIMITS, not normal speed. In the UK, many drivers view them as targets. Driving under the limit will often lead to tailgating. Especially in overtaking lanes.

FireBeyond 6y ago
That is by design, at least in some places. In Australia, for example, at least when I got my license, you were explicitly told that you are "required to drive at the maximum possible speed that is: within the posted limit, appropriate for the weather and road conditions, and within your ability to maintain safe control of the vehicle".

rurp 6y ago

I agree and want to add that bad traffic laws can even cause more injury and death. There's research on speed limits that shows that they don't influence actual speeds all that much, people generally drive at what they think is a reasonable speed[0] regardless. But some people do follow them very strictly. So on roads with speed limits that are far too low you get people driving together at very different speeds, which results in more accidents. [0] I can't find the source right now but IIRC in one of the experiments they increased the speed limit by 5 mph on a highway, but the speeds driven only increased by 1 mph.