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The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. That's pretty frustrating to read. I was sleep d

The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. That's pretty frustrating to read. I was sleep deprived enough to sleep 15 hours a day on the weekends during high school, but actually going to bed before midnight still just resulted in staring at a dark ceiling for an hour. Sleep hygiene is important, but at a certain point the circadian rhythm will put its foot down.

azinman2 6y ago
The unfortunate reality is that people have to meet up at some point and overlap for much of the day. This is as true for an adult as for a child. I say this as a night owl myself; the world hasn’t picked our way.
- rossnordby 6y ago
  True enough, but starting at 9:00 AM instead of 7:30 AM still leaves plenty of time for that. It wouldn't have been enough for me, but an extra hour and half of sleep would have been way better than nothing. I also suspect that starting at 11 AM-1 PM and going until 4-5 PM, despite being less overall time, would produce vastly better academic outcomes in high school just due to the average teenage circadian rhythm and the resulting zombification of current students. The noneducational duties of high school could be handled by letting students show up earlier as needed with breakfast/lunch provided- the structured classes would just start later. Maybe give the early arrivers a place to take a nap while we're at it.
  - mtalantikite 6y ago
    Starting at even 8:30 would have been life changing for me. I, like you, just couldn’t fall asleep before midnight (still don’t). Not that I think we should accommodate people like me that naturally are later, but the average 16 year old isn’t happily waking up at 6 am. I totally agree that if we focused on getting kids a reasonable amount of sleep and a healthy meal or two (and hydrated!), we’d likely be able to have much better outcomes.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
      The CDC recommends schools start at 8:30. I have the same sleeping habit as you, regardless of my work schedule (including graveyard shift over the years), I naturally wake up later than 7-8am and I am most productive late noon or after 1am.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  We need to fight for our rights. Build systems that will weed out the early risers. :D I was taking prescribed sleeping pills because I couldn't fall asleep and had anxiety attacks late at night if I forced it. My school started at 6 am so I got up at 5 am. It got pretty bad at some point. My dad and grandfather both have problem sleeping early but I am worse.

azinman2 6y ago

The unfortunate reality is that people have to meet up at some point and overlap for much of the day. This is as true for an adult as for a child. I say this as a night owl myself; the world hasn’t picked our way.

rossnordby 6y ago
True enough, but starting at 9:00 AM instead of 7:30 AM still leaves plenty of time for that. It wouldn't have been enough for me, but an extra hour and half of sleep would have been way better than nothing. I also suspect that starting at 11 AM-1 PM and going until 4-5 PM, despite being less overall time, would produce vastly better academic outcomes in high school just due to the average teenage circadian rhythm and the resulting zombification of current students. The noneducational duties of high school could be handled by letting students show up earlier as needed with breakfast/lunch provided- the structured classes would just start later. Maybe give the early arrivers a place to take a nap while we're at it.
- mtalantikite 6y ago
  Starting at even 8:30 would have been life changing for me. I, like you, just couldn’t fall asleep before midnight (still don’t). Not that I think we should accommodate people like me that naturally are later, but the average 16 year old isn’t happily waking up at 6 am. I totally agree that if we focused on getting kids a reasonable amount of sleep and a healthy meal or two (and hydrated!), we’d likely be able to have much better outcomes.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    The CDC recommends schools start at 8:30. I have the same sleeping habit as you, regardless of my work schedule (including graveyard shift over the years), I naturally wake up later than 7-8am and I am most productive late noon or after 1am.
searchableguy 6y ago
We need to fight for our rights. Build systems that will weed out the early risers. :D I was taking prescribed sleeping pills because I couldn't fall asleep and had anxiety attacks late at night if I forced it. My school started at 6 am so I got up at 5 am. It got pretty bad at some point. My dad and grandfather both have problem sleeping early but I am worse.