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You could say the same about America and Trump. The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. Rather than sad, it

You could say the same about America and Trump. The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. Rather than sad, it's just part of the system. How can we improve the results? Is there a systems-thinking approach that takes this into account and bends it toward positive ends?

BrianOnHN 6y ago
Preach. This is a scary situation. And I believe HN/Ycombinator cater to the crowd that actually has the ability to disrupt this status quo. People that can really change things for the better. Let's turn this ship around. Solving this problem can be how SV rewrites it's history to become known for more than attention draining and advertising schemes.
SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
The difference is that US arguably has long been "great": great educational institution, great high-tech corps, great cinema etc.
lightgreen 6y ago
Or you can say the same about America and Biden. Or America and Bush. Or America and Clinton. > The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. I could say that you have consumed leftists propaganda about Trump. But I won't. > The masses always will consume the propaganda > How can we improve the results? For starters, stop thinking of people as masses. They are capable of making intelligent decisions. I think I understand why when choosing between Clinton and Trump people picked Trump. This was logical decision for many of Trump voters. It would be very helpful for the current US democratic party to understand why people voted from Trump without pinpointig it to racism and homophobia and other sins.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  It was clear to me why people voted for trump the first time round. (Although, many experts believe it was more about voting against Clinton than for trump.) He was an outsider/wildcard/Maverick and perceived smart businessman so his promises to clean up the corruption seemed more plausible than the entrenched status quo. Now that his lack of business acumen, lack of general intelligence, non-existent diplomacy, zero empathy, and pure personal greed mixed with nepotism and corruption has been laid bare, I understand those who plan to vote for him next time round very little except through the lens of identity politics and hate/racism/xenophobia/epistemonophobia.
  - mikelyons 6y ago
    There's a really good lens for understanding this called Spiral Dynamics, a scientific model of the evolution/development of consciousness which is the work of Clare Graves. If you understand that Trump is at the red/orange level of consciousness, and so is a huge chunk of the American population, it's obvious why they will vote for him. The stage red / stage orange worldview is pretty clearly what conservative Americans operate on, (and many are very on stage blue also). The majority of liberal Americans are operating on stages orange and green. And these are still all tier 1 of 2 tiers in the model.

BrianOnHN 6y ago

Preach. This is a scary situation. And I believe HN/Ycombinator cater to the crowd that actually has the ability to disrupt this status quo. People that can really change things for the better. Let's turn this ship around. Solving this problem can be how SV rewrites it's history to become known for more than attention draining and advertising schemes.

SomeoneFromCA 6y ago

The difference is that US arguably has long been "great": great educational institution, great high-tech corps, great cinema etc.

lightgreen 6y ago

Or you can say the same about America and Biden. Or America and Bush. Or America and Clinton. > The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. I could say that you have consumed leftists propaganda about Trump. But I won't. > The masses always will consume the propaganda > How can we improve the results? For starters, stop thinking of people as masses. They are capable of making intelligent decisions. I think I understand why when choosing between Clinton and Trump people picked Trump. This was logical decision for many of Trump voters. It would be very helpful for the current US democratic party to understand why people voted from Trump without pinpointig it to racism and homophobia and other sins.

jjeaff 6y ago
It was clear to me why people voted for trump the first time round. (Although, many experts believe it was more about voting against Clinton than for trump.) He was an outsider/wildcard/Maverick and perceived smart businessman so his promises to clean up the corruption seemed more plausible than the entrenched status quo. Now that his lack of business acumen, lack of general intelligence, non-existent diplomacy, zero empathy, and pure personal greed mixed with nepotism and corruption has been laid bare, I understand those who plan to vote for him next time round very little except through the lens of identity politics and hate/racism/xenophobia/epistemonophobia.
- mikelyons 6y ago
  There's a really good lens for understanding this called Spiral Dynamics, a scientific model of the evolution/development of consciousness which is the work of Clare Graves. If you understand that Trump is at the red/orange level of consciousness, and so is a huge chunk of the American population, it's obvious why they will vote for him. The stage red / stage orange worldview is pretty clearly what conservative Americans operate on, (and many are very on stage blue also). The majority of liberal Americans are operating on stages orange and green. And these are still all tier 1 of 2 tiers in the model.