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They still have nuclear weapons. And they have enough propaganda / hybrid war capability to get Trump elected. Maybe not a world superpower but dangerous noneth

by glogla 6y ago

They still have nuclear weapons. And they have enough propaganda / hybrid war capability to get Trump elected. Maybe not a world superpower but dangerous nonetheless. I'm more interested in why Russia still tries to continue Cold War and fight the West. Contrary to what many Russians believe (or at least what they write online), West is not out to get them - other than to sell them shitty products made in China with crazy markup and make them watch internet ads. Meanwhile China is slowly taking over Siberia with all the mineral and material goodies and they aren't doing anything about that. Almost like it's more about pretending than about actual power.

mikelyons 6y ago
What do you think about the idea that it's all about Putin's revenge on USA for the attempted assassination?
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Um, what attempted assassination? I think what's really going on is the usual. If you're stealing your country blind, manufacture foreign enemies and blame them, so the people at home think you're a hero instead of a villain.
  - mikelyons 6y ago
    I was wrong about attempted assassination, was thinking of Bush's: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-punishes-iraq-for-plot-to-kill-bush https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-punishes...
atombender 6y ago
As much as I abhor Putin, he sort of has a point, if you look at the geopolitical history since the breakup of the Soviet Union. At the time, the US and western Europe were quick to bring many of the former republics into their fold, then into NATO (despite promising not to do so), which Putin sees as an affront and a threat to Russia's sovereignty, which in turn is why he finally invaded Ukraine (twice!) as well as Georgia: He will not tolerate NATO at his doorstep. As for why Putin still sees the West as the enemy, I don't think we can analyze Putin outside the context of the Soviet Union. He doesn't quite want to bring it back, but it's abundantly clear from his statements that he's never abandoned the idea that Russia has a claim to Eastern Europe (if not outright as its ruler, then certainly as a cultural protector), that he sees Western culture as encroaching on Russia's. From his perspective the West is out to get Russia. That's a legitimate geopolitical concern, of course; all states desire to protect their sovereignty and sphere of influence. What's unusual is that Russia has been able to wield so much military and cultural power relative to its small size, which is why we're even talking about it. I think it's incredibly scary just how much better Putin is at playing this game than the seemingly gullible Western powers. Where it gets tricky is Putin's other side as a cold-hearted authoritarian gangster keeping a tenuous network of equally gangster oligarchs in place. If Russia ever becomes democratic and its judicial system restored, Putin would end up going the way of Saddam Hussein. (He's not going to get the Idi Amin treatment.) So you can't see Putin's political moves exclusively through the lens of statesmanship either; in choosing to be a ruthless kleptocrat, he's ruled out the possibility of a peaceful succession, and that's yet another complex factor driving the fate of Russia.

by glogla 6y ago

mikelyons 6y ago

What do you think about the idea that it's all about Putin's revenge on USA for the attempted assassination?

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Um, what attempted assassination? I think what's really going on is the usual. If you're stealing your country blind, manufacture foreign enemies and blame them, so the people at home think you're a hero instead of a villain.
- mikelyons 6y ago
  I was wrong about attempted assassination, was thinking of Bush's: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-punishes-iraq-for-plot-to-kill-bush https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-punishes...

atombender 6y ago

As much as I abhor Putin, he sort of has a point, if you look at the geopolitical history since the breakup of the Soviet Union. At the time, the US and western Europe were quick to bring many of the former republics into their fold, then into NATO (despite promising not to do so), which Putin sees as an affront and a threat to Russia's sovereignty, which in turn is why he finally invaded Ukraine (twice!) as well as Georgia: He will not tolerate NATO at his doorstep. As for why Putin still sees the West as the enemy, I don't think we can analyze Putin outside the context of the Soviet Union. He doesn't quite want to bring it back, but it's abundantly clear from his statements that he's never abandoned the idea that Russia has a claim to Eastern Europe (if not outright as its ruler, then certainly as a cultural protector), that he sees Western culture as encroaching on Russia's. From his perspective the West is out to get Russia. That's a legitimate geopolitical concern, of course; all states desire to protect their sovereignty and sphere of influence. What's unusual is that Russia has been able to wield so much military and cultural power relative to its small size, which is why we're even talking about it. I think it's incredibly scary just how much better Putin is at playing this game than the seemingly gullible Western powers. Where it gets tricky is Putin's other side as a cold-hearted authoritarian gangster keeping a tenuous network of equally gangster oligarchs in place. If Russia ever becomes democratic and its judicial system restored, Putin would end up going the way of Saddam Hussein. (He's not going to get the Idi Amin treatment.) So you can't see Putin's political moves exclusively through the lens of statesmanship either; in choosing to be a ruthless kleptocrat, he's ruled out the possibility of a peaceful succession, and that's yet another complex factor driving the fate of Russia.