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Come on, if you are referring to schools in the U.S this is a gross misrepresentation of reality. School lunches are mandated by federal law (milk and/or juice

Come on, if you are referring to schools in the U.S this is a gross misrepresentation of reality. School lunches are mandated by federal law (milk and/or juice is to be provided). Its hardly 'no food at all'. The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. What about the people that go to bed at 8 and are morning people?

mtalantikite 6y ago
You went to bed at 8 as a 16 year old? That seems... atypical for a teenager or even an adult. Even my father, who is definitely a morning person and wakes up at 4:30 or 5 every day, doesn’t go to bed at 8. I was and am a vegetarian, and maybe in wealthy districts they have better lunch options, but certainly not in mine. The fact that we largely tie school funding to property taxes is a huge problem. Regardless, let’s not pretend that school lunch, at least in the 90s, was actually healthy or good or even at a reasonable time for lunch.
Balgair 6y ago
We had three lunches per day, mostly overlapping with other classes. As in, you were either on A, B, or C lunch while the other kids were in class. Often, A lunch wasn't prepared yet and C lunch didn't have enough by the end of it. This was a chronic condition in a few CA schools when I attended. My SO was a teacher for a few years too. Despite Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) being offered and encouraged, many kids' parents still could not be bothered to sign their kids up until late in the year. My SO kept food in the drawers of the desk for these kids. In addition, FRL did not cover the weekends, so many kids would come in on Monday having not eaten for that weekend. Though not common, it was again chronic with these kids. Food scarcity in the US is still very much a 'thing', unfortunately.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  I remember being very hungry most of the day. If I ate, it was usually because I had enough change to buy junk-food snacks from a vending machine. I didn't know until recently other people also had similar experiences.
badrabbit 6y ago
The CDC and other health orgs actually recommend starting schools a bit later [1]. Going through puberty plus some people naturally waking up later (sleeping early just means waking up most of the night) has serious health implications when waking up too early consistently. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6430a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6430a1.htm
- azinman2 6y ago
  Sure but isn’t this also largely a function of adults dropping off kids before work?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Probably, but interestingly in my local school district they have moved up the start time even though there is no bus service offered past elementary school…
rossnordby 6y ago
The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. That's pretty frustrating to read. I was sleep deprived enough to sleep 15 hours a day on the weekends during high school, but actually going to bed before midnight still just resulted in staring at a dark ceiling for an hour. Sleep hygiene is important, but at a certain point the circadian rhythm will put its foot down.
- azinman2 6y ago
  The unfortunate reality is that people have to meet up at some point and overlap for much of the day. This is as true for an adult as for a child. I say this as a night owl myself; the world hasn’t picked our way.
  - rossnordby 6y ago
    True enough, but starting at 9:00 AM instead of 7:30 AM still leaves plenty of time for that. It wouldn't have been enough for me, but an extra hour and half of sleep would have been way better than nothing. I also suspect that starting at 11 AM-1 PM and going until 4-5 PM, despite being less overall time, would produce vastly better academic outcomes in high school just due to the average teenage circadian rhythm and the resulting zombification of current students. The noneducational duties of high school could be handled by letting students show up earlier as needed with breakfast/lunch provided- the structured classes would just start later. Maybe give the early arrivers a place to take a nap while we're at it.
    - mtalantikite 6y ago
      Starting at even 8:30 would have been life changing for me. I, like you, just couldn’t fall asleep before midnight (still don’t). Not that I think we should accommodate people like me that naturally are later, but the average 16 year old isn’t happily waking up at 6 am. I totally agree that if we focused on getting kids a reasonable amount of sleep and a healthy meal or two (and hydrated!), we’d likely be able to have much better outcomes.

mtalantikite 6y ago

You went to bed at 8 as a 16 year old? That seems... atypical for a teenager or even an adult. Even my father, who is definitely a morning person and wakes up at 4:30 or 5 every day, doesn’t go to bed at 8. I was and am a vegetarian, and maybe in wealthy districts they have better lunch options, but certainly not in mine. The fact that we largely tie school funding to property taxes is a huge problem. Regardless, let’s not pretend that school lunch, at least in the 90s, was actually healthy or good or even at a reasonable time for lunch.

Balgair 6y ago

We had three lunches per day, mostly overlapping with other classes. As in, you were either on A, B, or C lunch while the other kids were in class. Often, A lunch wasn't prepared yet and C lunch didn't have enough by the end of it. This was a chronic condition in a few CA schools when I attended. My SO was a teacher for a few years too. Despite Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) being offered and encouraged, many kids' parents still could not be bothered to sign their kids up until late in the year. My SO kept food in the drawers of the desk for these kids. In addition, FRL did not cover the weekends, so many kids would come in on Monday having not eaten for that weekend. Though not common, it was again chronic with these kids. Food scarcity in the US is still very much a 'thing', unfortunately.

badrabbit 6y ago
I remember being very hungry most of the day. If I ate, it was usually because I had enough change to buy junk-food snacks from a vending machine. I didn't know until recently other people also had similar experiences.

badrabbit 6y ago

The CDC and other health orgs actually recommend starting schools a bit later [1]. Going through puberty plus some people naturally waking up later (sleeping early just means waking up most of the night) has serious health implications when waking up too early consistently. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6430a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6430a1.htm

azinman2 6y ago
Sure but isn’t this also largely a function of adults dropping off kids before work?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Probably, but interestingly in my local school district they have moved up the start time even though there is no bus service offered past elementary school…

rossnordby 6y ago

The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. That's pretty frustrating to read. I was sleep deprived enough to sleep 15 hours a day on the weekends during high school, but actually going to bed before midnight still just resulted in staring at a dark ceiling for an hour. Sleep hygiene is important, but at a certain point the circadian rhythm will put its foot down.

azinman2 6y ago
The unfortunate reality is that people have to meet up at some point and overlap for much of the day. This is as true for an adult as for a child. I say this as a night owl myself; the world hasn’t picked our way.
- rossnordby 6y ago
  True enough, but starting at 9:00 AM instead of 7:30 AM still leaves plenty of time for that. It wouldn't have been enough for me, but an extra hour and half of sleep would have been way better than nothing. I also suspect that starting at 11 AM-1 PM and going until 4-5 PM, despite being less overall time, would produce vastly better academic outcomes in high school just due to the average teenage circadian rhythm and the resulting zombification of current students. The noneducational duties of high school could be handled by letting students show up earlier as needed with breakfast/lunch provided- the structured classes would just start later. Maybe give the early arrivers a place to take a nap while we're at it.
  - mtalantikite 6y ago
    Starting at even 8:30 would have been life changing for me. I, like you, just couldn’t fall asleep before midnight (still don’t). Not that I think we should accommodate people like me that naturally are later, but the average 16 year old isn’t happily waking up at 6 am. I totally agree that if we focused on getting kids a reasonable amount of sleep and a healthy meal or two (and hydrated!), we’d likely be able to have much better outcomes.