6 ms·

American schools resemble actual prisons in many ways. From the architecture of buildings to the freezing temperature (prisoners fight less when cold) they are

American schools resemble actual prisons in many ways. From the architecture of buildings to the freezing temperature (prisoners fight less when cold) they are shockingly similar. And they have to wake up unnaturrally early. I think it all comes down to how students are seen by architects and the school system in general. I wonder if private schools are different.

mtalantikite 6y ago
My high school had windows you couldn’t see out of at all. They were made of plastic when built in the 70s and the material degraded within a few years and turned opaque. Class started at about 7:20, which meant I “woke up” at 6 (usually after staying up super late hacking on things on the late 90s Internet). Lunch was at like 10:45 and was barely food with no water, if I ate at all. It definitely felt like we were trapped in there and held against our will.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  I think Japanese schools are something to learn from. They usually have openable windows to let fresh air in, the "commons" area is usually outdoor and students cleanup and care for the school itself -- which teaches students to be responsible and it makes them feel like they are an essential part of the school, not brains to be herded. I don't care much for the uniforms though. Now I am curious how schools in scandanavia are, given their famous prisons.
  - sosborn 6y ago
    Uh, Japanese schools are way more prison like. There are some positive attributes (as you mention), but overall it is not a great system to model.
    - rosseloh 6y ago
      There's a lot to...not like, about Japanese schools, but the whole "students take care of cleaning" thing is something I do think would be nice to see in the US. But that's the same part of me talking that wishes everyone was "forced" to work a retail or food service job for a year or two of their life. Probably impossible to actually do and enforce here, but would definitely make people overall be nicer and more considerate of others (and in the case of cleaning schools, more likely to clean up after themselves).
- kickout 6y ago
  Come on, if you are referring to schools in the U.S this is a gross misrepresentation of reality. School lunches are mandated by federal law (milk and/or juice is to be provided). Its hardly 'no food at all'. The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. What about the people that go to bed at 8 and are morning people?
  - mtalantikite 6y ago
    You went to bed at 8 as a 16 year old? That seems... atypical for a teenager or even an adult. Even my father, who is definitely a morning person and wakes up at 4:30 or 5 every day, doesn’t go to bed at 8. I was and am a vegetarian, and maybe in wealthy districts they have better lunch options, but certainly not in mine. The fact that we largely tie school funding to property taxes is a huge problem. Regardless, let’s not pretend that school lunch, at least in the 90s, was actually healthy or good or even at a reasonable time for lunch.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    We had three lunches per day, mostly overlapping with other classes. As in, you were either on A, B, or C lunch while the other kids were in class. Often, A lunch wasn't prepared yet and C lunch didn't have enough by the end of it. This was a chronic condition in a few CA schools when I attended. My SO was a teacher for a few years too. Despite Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) being offered and encouraged, many kids' parents still could not be bothered to sign their kids up until late in the year. My SO kept food in the drawers of the desk for these kids. In addition, FRL did not cover the weekends, so many kids would come in on Monday having not eaten for that weekend. Though not common, it was again chronic with these kids. Food scarcity in the US is still very much a 'thing', unfortunately.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
      I remember being very hungry most of the day. If I ate, it was usually because I had enough change to buy junk-food snacks from a vending machine. I didn't know until recently other people also had similar experiences.
disown 6y ago
> American schools resemble actual prisons in many ways. It's not just american schools. All schools resemble prisons because all school systems around the world essentially adopted the american model which borrowed heavily from the prussian model. All schools were compulsory indoctrination centers which buttressed the burgeoning nation-states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system Modern education system, along with national media, government, etc are pillars of the nation-state. You can't have a nation-state without one nowadays.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  I've seen how schools are in other countries both in person and on video. In the US down to the doors and walls they are almost identical. Perhaps the US does it a bit too well?
  - Wohlf 6y ago
    I would hazard a guess that it has to do with a lot of American schools being made during the Cold War, and designed to double as emergency shelters.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
      You know, that might actually be a reasonable explanation.
    - Lammy 6y ago
      That was the impression I always got from my 1984-built Elementary school building. It was all concrete block construction with odd roof angles taken low to the ground. Many fond memories of using the Macintosh LCs in a completely-windowless freezing-cold chamber in the center of the building.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      Not just the cold war. My elementary school was originally from the early 20th century and it had the vestiges of the subsequent wars: bomb shelter signs, eerie hallways without windows, heavy metal doors to transition between sections of the building.
alexbanks 6y ago
My high school looks indistinguishable from a prison. When I have to drive by it now while visiting home I always kind of shudder. Giant mostly windowless buildings with a giant fence surrounding.
- msoucy 6y ago
  My sister's first college dorm was literally made by a prison architect. It showed.
  - legerdemain 6y ago
    Everything in the US is a prison. The 1980 Olympic village in Lake Placid was built to be a federal prison, briefly functioned as the Olympic village housing athletes, and has functioned as a federal prison ever since then. Ref: https://www.lakeplacid.com/story/2016/02/olympic-prison-story https://www.lakeplacid.com/story/2016/02/olympic-prison-stor...

mtalantikite 6y ago

My high school had windows you couldn’t see out of at all. They were made of plastic when built in the 70s and the material degraded within a few years and turned opaque. Class started at about 7:20, which meant I “woke up” at 6 (usually after staying up super late hacking on things on the late 90s Internet). Lunch was at like 10:45 and was barely food with no water, if I ate at all. It definitely felt like we were trapped in there and held against our will.

badrabbit 6y ago
I think Japanese schools are something to learn from. They usually have openable windows to let fresh air in, the "commons" area is usually outdoor and students cleanup and care for the school itself -- which teaches students to be responsible and it makes them feel like they are an essential part of the school, not brains to be herded. I don't care much for the uniforms though. Now I am curious how schools in scandanavia are, given their famous prisons.
- sosborn 6y ago
  Uh, Japanese schools are way more prison like. There are some positive attributes (as you mention), but overall it is not a great system to model.
  - rosseloh 6y ago
    There's a lot to...not like, about Japanese schools, but the whole "students take care of cleaning" thing is something I do think would be nice to see in the US. But that's the same part of me talking that wishes everyone was "forced" to work a retail or food service job for a year or two of their life. Probably impossible to actually do and enforce here, but would definitely make people overall be nicer and more considerate of others (and in the case of cleaning schools, more likely to clean up after themselves).
kickout 6y ago
Come on, if you are referring to schools in the U.S this is a gross misrepresentation of reality. School lunches are mandated by federal law (milk and/or juice is to be provided). Its hardly 'no food at all'. The fact _you choose_ to stay up all night hacking on things does not matter in the hours of school operation. What about the people that go to bed at 8 and are morning people?
- mtalantikite 6y ago
  You went to bed at 8 as a 16 year old? That seems... atypical for a teenager or even an adult. Even my father, who is definitely a morning person and wakes up at 4:30 or 5 every day, doesn’t go to bed at 8. I was and am a vegetarian, and maybe in wealthy districts they have better lunch options, but certainly not in mine. The fact that we largely tie school funding to property taxes is a huge problem. Regardless, let’s not pretend that school lunch, at least in the 90s, was actually healthy or good or even at a reasonable time for lunch.
- Balgair 6y ago
  We had three lunches per day, mostly overlapping with other classes. As in, you were either on A, B, or C lunch while the other kids were in class. Often, A lunch wasn't prepared yet and C lunch didn't have enough by the end of it. This was a chronic condition in a few CA schools when I attended. My SO was a teacher for a few years too. Despite Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) being offered and encouraged, many kids' parents still could not be bothered to sign their kids up until late in the year. My SO kept food in the drawers of the desk for these kids. In addition, FRL did not cover the weekends, so many kids would come in on Monday having not eaten for that weekend. Though not common, it was again chronic with these kids. Food scarcity in the US is still very much a 'thing', unfortunately.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    I remember being very hungry most of the day. If I ate, it was usually because I had enough change to buy junk-food snacks from a vending machine. I didn't know until recently other people also had similar experiences.

disown 6y ago

> American schools resemble actual prisons in many ways. It's not just american schools. All schools resemble prisons because all school systems around the world essentially adopted the american model which borrowed heavily from the prussian model. All schools were compulsory indoctrination centers which buttressed the burgeoning nation-states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system Modern education system, along with national media, government, etc are pillars of the nation-state. You can't have a nation-state without one nowadays.

badrabbit 6y ago
I've seen how schools are in other countries both in person and on video. In the US down to the doors and walls they are almost identical. Perhaps the US does it a bit too well?
- Wohlf 6y ago
  I would hazard a guess that it has to do with a lot of American schools being made during the Cold War, and designed to double as emergency shelters.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    You know, that might actually be a reasonable explanation.
  - Lammy 6y ago
    That was the impression I always got from my 1984-built Elementary school building. It was all concrete block construction with odd roof angles taken low to the ground. Many fond memories of using the Macintosh LCs in a completely-windowless freezing-cold chamber in the center of the building.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    Not just the cold war. My elementary school was originally from the early 20th century and it had the vestiges of the subsequent wars: bomb shelter signs, eerie hallways without windows, heavy metal doors to transition between sections of the building.

alexbanks 6y ago

My high school looks indistinguishable from a prison. When I have to drive by it now while visiting home I always kind of shudder. Giant mostly windowless buildings with a giant fence surrounding.

msoucy 6y ago
My sister's first college dorm was literally made by a prison architect. It showed.
- legerdemain 6y ago
  Everything in the US is a prison. The 1980 Olympic village in Lake Placid was built to be a federal prison, briefly functioned as the Olympic village housing athletes, and has functioned as a federal prison ever since then. Ref: https://www.lakeplacid.com/story/2016/02/olympic-prison-story https://www.lakeplacid.com/story/2016/02/olympic-prison-stor...