8 ms·

> They should perhaps consider not invading places all the time We're kicking the US out of G7 next, then? Oh wait ... it's okay when we do it, right?

michaelcampbell 6y ago
What has the US invaded and taken as part of its own country?
- luckylion 6y ago
  You'll notice that the comment I replied to complained about invasions, not annexations. Something the US does more regularly than electing a new president. Other than that, the US has been annexing little recently, but in history quite a bit.
- hchz 6y ago
  Puerto Rico Texas (invaded by Americans and annexed) Guam Hawaii (USMC supported coup by European and American businessmen)
  - artofgo 6y ago
    Technically, Puerto Rico and Guam were already invaded by Spain before it was handed over to the US in 1898. With Texas, I believe it won its war of independence against Mexico and later annexed by the US (1835). If you're going to go back that far they US "invasions" is probably fairly tame compared to other countries of that time period.
  - xref 6y ago
    US interests overthrew the Hawaiian Kingdom in 1893, and personally I believe a day of national reckoning over that is still inevitable. However people using it to justify Russia annexing Crimea in 2014 strains credulity.
Retric 6y ago
The US has a history of handling territory back after invasions, which makes people less nervous. China’s invasion /annexation of Tibet for example made everyone on it’s borders very concerned.
- newen 6y ago
  Instead, they just plant military bases in the country and set up a puppet government that supports the US. Amounts to the same thing.
  - Retric 6y ago
    In the short term perhaps. However, I doubt many people consider Germany a puppet of the US. Japan for example has the 5th most powerful military in the world. ‘Amusingly,‘ Cuba has a US base and a rather antagonistic relationship. However, long term many countries like US bases because money flows in one direction from that base into the local economy. It’s the same reason so many bases exist across the US.
    - martin_a 6y ago
      > However, I doubt many people consider Germany a puppet of the US. As a sidenote from a German: This is somewhat delicate and often talked about in German population. Not really happening in media, but I think everybody has his stance on this and some pros or cons. Anyway it's not easy for Germans.
      - newen 6y ago
        Yes, it's similar to the situations in Japan and South Korea where the US has what are essentially US supporting puppet governments in power. It's impossible for these countries to kick the US military bases out of their lands.
        selimthegrim 6y ago
        The Philippines did.
ashtonkem 6y ago
If the US declared Iraq to be part of America, then yes. Or the next time American claims a chunk of Mexico or Canada for themselves. Iraq was a huge mistake, but it is not the same as trying to seize land from your neighboring country.
- konart 6y ago
  So killing a fuck ton of people is okay as long as you not going to grab some land (but take some oil or any other resource), right?
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Ethically, no. But at the nation state level, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that countries care much more about protecting territory than people, especially people in far away places. That’s both the story of colonialism, and the story of countries standing by and doing nothing during various genocides in the 19th and 20th century. So yes, I would absolutely expect countries to respond differently to the invasion of Ukraine than Iraq. Same as how countries have reacted quite differently to Russia’s behavior in Ukraine than in Syria.
    - konart 6y ago
      >invasion of Ukraine than Iraq. >behavior in Ukraine than in Syria. See, the thing is - Iraq and Ukraine were `invaded`. So you can actually compare the response from the other countries. Syria is a very different story as Russia was invited there. So it is obvious why the reaction to Russian presence there is different. Yet when the US 'enters' the scene - everything is different. In both cases. And this is something people over here in Russia can't really understand. Why the hell bombing the hell out of Iraq was okay, but cutting off a small region in a relatively calm manner in Ukraine is not.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Because Russia took a part of Ukraine, or at least is trying to. It freaks out Europeans to see another country in the region invading neighbors and claiming territory. It’s the same basic reason why the Brits responded very poorly when the Germans invaded Belgium; everyone in the region starts worrying if they’re next. For all the flaws of the US invasion of Iraq, the US didn’t claim Iraq as US territory. Yes, we’ve maintained a military presence there, but that isn’t the same as putting up a US flag over the country and saying “this is ours now”.

michaelcampbell 6y ago

What has the US invaded and taken as part of its own country?

luckylion 6y ago
You'll notice that the comment I replied to complained about invasions, not annexations. Something the US does more regularly than electing a new president. Other than that, the US has been annexing little recently, but in history quite a bit.
hchz 6y ago
Puerto Rico Texas (invaded by Americans and annexed) Guam Hawaii (USMC supported coup by European and American businessmen)
- artofgo 6y ago
  Technically, Puerto Rico and Guam were already invaded by Spain before it was handed over to the US in 1898. With Texas, I believe it won its war of independence against Mexico and later annexed by the US (1835). If you're going to go back that far they US "invasions" is probably fairly tame compared to other countries of that time period.
- xref 6y ago
  US interests overthrew the Hawaiian Kingdom in 1893, and personally I believe a day of national reckoning over that is still inevitable. However people using it to justify Russia annexing Crimea in 2014 strains credulity.

Retric 6y ago

The US has a history of handling territory back after invasions, which makes people less nervous. China’s invasion /annexation of Tibet for example made everyone on it’s borders very concerned.

newen 6y ago
Instead, they just plant military bases in the country and set up a puppet government that supports the US. Amounts to the same thing.
- Retric 6y ago
  In the short term perhaps. However, I doubt many people consider Germany a puppet of the US. Japan for example has the 5th most powerful military in the world. ‘Amusingly,‘ Cuba has a US base and a rather antagonistic relationship. However, long term many countries like US bases because money flows in one direction from that base into the local economy. It’s the same reason so many bases exist across the US.
  - martin_a 6y ago
    > However, I doubt many people consider Germany a puppet of the US. As a sidenote from a German: This is somewhat delicate and often talked about in German population. Not really happening in media, but I think everybody has his stance on this and some pros or cons. Anyway it's not easy for Germans.
    - newen 6y ago
      Yes, it's similar to the situations in Japan and South Korea where the US has what are essentially US supporting puppet governments in power. It's impossible for these countries to kick the US military bases out of their lands.
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        The Philippines did.

ashtonkem 6y ago

If the US declared Iraq to be part of America, then yes. Or the next time American claims a chunk of Mexico or Canada for themselves. Iraq was a huge mistake, but it is not the same as trying to seize land from your neighboring country.

konart 6y ago
So killing a fuck ton of people is okay as long as you not going to grab some land (but take some oil or any other resource), right?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Ethically, no. But at the nation state level, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that countries care much more about protecting territory than people, especially people in far away places. That’s both the story of colonialism, and the story of countries standing by and doing nothing during various genocides in the 19th and 20th century. So yes, I would absolutely expect countries to respond differently to the invasion of Ukraine than Iraq. Same as how countries have reacted quite differently to Russia’s behavior in Ukraine than in Syria.
  - konart 6y ago
    >invasion of Ukraine than Iraq. >behavior in Ukraine than in Syria. See, the thing is - Iraq and Ukraine were `invaded`. So you can actually compare the response from the other countries. Syria is a very different story as Russia was invited there. So it is obvious why the reaction to Russian presence there is different. Yet when the US 'enters' the scene - everything is different. In both cases. And this is something people over here in Russia can't really understand. Why the hell bombing the hell out of Iraq was okay, but cutting off a small region in a relatively calm manner in Ukraine is not.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Because Russia took a part of Ukraine, or at least is trying to. It freaks out Europeans to see another country in the region invading neighbors and claiming territory. It’s the same basic reason why the Brits responded very poorly when the Germans invaded Belgium; everyone in the region starts worrying if they’re next. For all the flaws of the US invasion of Iraq, the US didn’t claim Iraq as US territory. Yes, we’ve maintained a military presence there, but that isn’t the same as putting up a US flag over the country and saying “this is ours now”.