7 ms·

Even late versions of Solaris (such as I was using at school circa 2005) didn't ship a GNU userspace, you'd have to install it separately. By the time GCC 1.0 c

by floren 6y ago

Even late versions of Solaris (such as I was using at school circa 2005) didn't ship a GNU userspace, you'd have to install it separately. By the time GCC 1.0 came out in 1987, 4.3BSD was already out, SunOS was several versions deep, AT&T had released System V four years earlier... how precisely were these built on GNU tools, when they all got their start before GNU existed?

rbanffy 6y ago
Early versions of Solaris, as most Unix systems, didn't come with any compilers - a C compiler was an expensive add-on option. Other development tools - other languages, debuggers, linters, code-generators, etc, were not provided in the standard distribution. The college I graduated from, when I visited a couple years after graduating, had compilers installed in their Unix machines (mostly AIX, some HP/UX and, IIRC, one DG/UX). Usage was limited (they were licensed by seat). The availability of GNU tools was a big thing - for the first time we could have a C compiler and other developer tools on our Unix machines without worrying about per seat licensing.
- icedchai 6y ago
  I admin'd some SunOS 4.x boxes in the mid 90's. It came with a C compiler, but from what I remember it was K&R, pre-ANSI only. About the only thing we used it for was building gcc. The Solaris (meaning, SunOS 5.x) situation was different. I remember needing a licensed compiler, or installing a packaged gcc.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    I remember AT&T's Unix PC (a remarkable machine) required an extra-large hard disk option to even be able to install the development tools. And the hard disk upgrade was cheaper than the tools.
    - icedchai 6y ago
      I remember those! A friend had one, in high school. He got it used. Neat machine. This was probably 1990 or 91.
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        Now that I could afford one, they are no longer made ;-) Never found one without missing keys (or cracks, rust, fire damage...) on Ebay. And, as far as my retrocomputing needs go, I chose to live on the wrong side of the Atlantic.
        non-entity 6y ago
        Retrocomputing is a pain if you aren't looking at the most popular home computers. There are a few machines I'd love to get my hands on, but I've never seen one for sale.
        rbanffy 6y ago
        And when you do get your hands on a Cray-1, the DoD has classified all the interesting software ;-)
        toast0 6y ago
        At least a Cray will always make a nice bench?
        rbanffy 6y ago
        The 1, X-MP and the Y-MP are too tall for that. A pair of Cray-2's would work nicely.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  They actually did, Sun changed them into a separate product after a couple of Solaris versions, which triggered the adoption of the until then largely ignored GCC. There is a Usenet post about it.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Thank you. I guess I'm from the "couple Solarises later" era. I could swear the 386i I played with didn't have a compiler, but that was soooo long ago I am very likely wrong.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      I found out another source for how it went, > he second group was irate because Sun had "unbundled" its software. That is, rather than getting all of Sun's developer tools together, they had to be purchased separately. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050525231654621 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050525231654621
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        It makes sense the unbundling happened around the 386i timeframe. It also could be an optional part that never got installed on the one I played with. And, the article said, GCC was good and free.
  - jjav 6y ago
    That C compiler unbundling was probably the largest mistake Sun ever made and very likely the reason Linux rose to relevance and later world domination. In the early to mid 90s SunOS (prior to Solaris it was SunOS) was in the place where Linux has come to be - it was the default assumed by most software. When one ftp'd any src tarball and typed make, it was almost certain to work on SunOS and very often require extensive tweaking on other platforms. On the nascent early Linux it was a huge pain to get any open source to compile. Unbundling the C compiler in Solaris changed this dynamic. Suddenly it was no longer a given that everything could be trivially compiled on those SPARC box everyone had.
- doctor_eval 6y ago
  DGUX toolchain was GNU out of the box. It was one of the reasons I loved it.

by floren 6y ago

rbanffy 6y ago

Early versions of Solaris, as most Unix systems, didn't come with any compilers - a C compiler was an expensive add-on option. Other development tools - other languages, debuggers, linters, code-generators, etc, were not provided in the standard distribution. The college I graduated from, when I visited a couple years after graduating, had compilers installed in their Unix machines (mostly AIX, some HP/UX and, IIRC, one DG/UX). Usage was limited (they were licensed by seat). The availability of GNU tools was a big thing - for the first time we could have a C compiler and other developer tools on our Unix machines without worrying about per seat licensing.

icedchai 6y ago
I admin'd some SunOS 4.x boxes in the mid 90's. It came with a C compiler, but from what I remember it was K&R, pre-ANSI only. About the only thing we used it for was building gcc. The Solaris (meaning, SunOS 5.x) situation was different. I remember needing a licensed compiler, or installing a packaged gcc.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  I remember AT&T's Unix PC (a remarkable machine) required an extra-large hard disk option to even be able to install the development tools. And the hard disk upgrade was cheaper than the tools.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    I remember those! A friend had one, in high school. He got it used. Neat machine. This was probably 1990 or 91.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      Now that I could afford one, they are no longer made ;-) Never found one without missing keys (or cracks, rust, fire damage...) on Ebay. And, as far as my retrocomputing needs go, I chose to live on the wrong side of the Atlantic.
      - non-entity 6y ago
        Retrocomputing is a pain if you aren't looking at the most popular home computers. There are a few machines I'd love to get my hands on, but I've never seen one for sale.
        rbanffy 6y ago
        And when you do get your hands on a Cray-1, the DoD has classified all the interesting software ;-)
        toast0 6y ago
        At least a Cray will always make a nice bench?
        rbanffy 6y ago
        The 1, X-MP and the Y-MP are too tall for that. A pair of Cray-2's would work nicely.
pjmlp 6y ago
They actually did, Sun changed them into a separate product after a couple of Solaris versions, which triggered the adoption of the until then largely ignored GCC. There is a Usenet post about it.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  Thank you. I guess I'm from the "couple Solarises later" era. I could swear the 386i I played with didn't have a compiler, but that was soooo long ago I am very likely wrong.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    I found out another source for how it went, > he second group was irate because Sun had "unbundled" its software. That is, rather than getting all of Sun's developer tools together, they had to be purchased separately. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050525231654621 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050525231654621
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      It makes sense the unbundling happened around the 386i timeframe. It also could be an optional part that never got installed on the one I played with. And, the article said, GCC was good and free.
- jjav 6y ago
  That C compiler unbundling was probably the largest mistake Sun ever made and very likely the reason Linux rose to relevance and later world domination. In the early to mid 90s SunOS (prior to Solaris it was SunOS) was in the place where Linux has come to be - it was the default assumed by most software. When one ftp'd any src tarball and typed make, it was almost certain to work on SunOS and very often require extensive tweaking on other platforms. On the nascent early Linux it was a huge pain to get any open source to compile. Unbundling the C compiler in Solaris changed this dynamic. Suddenly it was no longer a given that everything could be trivially compiled on those SPARC box everyone had.
doctor_eval 6y ago
DGUX toolchain was GNU out of the box. It was one of the reasons I loved it.