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The other part of it was to be able to 'chip away' at criminal enterprises. Especially in the past (i.e. before the age of digital surveillance, cheap/easy vide

The other part of it was to be able to 'chip away' at criminal enterprises. Especially in the past (i.e. before the age of digital surveillance, cheap/easy video, etc.) it was much more difficult to get enough evidence to catch some of the more-organized criminals. Remember, for a criminal act you are supposed to be considered guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. That's a huge part of why asset forfeiture is civil and based on 'presumption of guilt'. Remember, the only thing they every got a solid conviction on for Al Capone was Tax Evasion. Unfortunately it is a system that provides perverse incentives for law enforcement that have been abused more and more over time.

watwut 6y ago
> That's a huge part of why asset forfeiture is civil and based on 'presumption of guilt'. Remember, the only thing they every got a solid conviction on for Al Capone was Tax Evasion. Now of course, the big part of why Capone could not be caught otherwise was corruption - cops and officials paid by Capone or trading favors. Making asset forfeiture available with little oversight gives it to hands of the same people eager to cooperate with Capone. Had all cops and prosecutors and judges and jail workers bean ethical, we would not need oversight and simultaneously Capone would be caught sooner.
gus_massa 6y ago
Presumption of innocence is a feature, not a bug. It is not there because thought it was cool to write it. It is a reaction of previous abuses. Take a look at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12010760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12010760 (510 points | June 30, 2016 | 206 comments) Now imagine that the cop says "I don't care if the judge thinks he is innocent, and I don't care that we can find no evidence. I believe he is guilty. Let's make his life miserable with extrajudicial punishment because we can use presumption of guilt. Let's seize his car, his home and whatever we can imagine."

watwut 6y ago

> That's a huge part of why asset forfeiture is civil and based on 'presumption of guilt'. Remember, the only thing they every got a solid conviction on for Al Capone was Tax Evasion. Now of course, the big part of why Capone could not be caught otherwise was corruption - cops and officials paid by Capone or trading favors. Making asset forfeiture available with little oversight gives it to hands of the same people eager to cooperate with Capone. Had all cops and prosecutors and judges and jail workers bean ethical, we would not need oversight and simultaneously Capone would be caught sooner.

gus_massa 6y ago

Presumption of innocence is a feature, not a bug. It is not there because thought it was cool to write it. It is a reaction of previous abuses. Take a look at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12010760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12010760 (510 points | June 30, 2016 | 206 comments) Now imagine that the cop says "I don't care if the judge thinks he is innocent, and I don't care that we can find no evidence. I believe he is guilty. Let's make his life miserable with extrajudicial punishment because we can use presumption of guilt. Let's seize his car, his home and whatever we can imagine."