4 ms·

> School should start at a reasonable time. In my opinion, 8AM is too early. Kids that live far away have to wake up at 6AM, which is not a normal time judging

> School should start at a reasonable time. In my opinion, 8AM is too early. Kids that live far away have to wake up at 6AM, which is not a normal time judging by when kids wake up during summer break (9-10AM). They wake up that late because they're staying up late. They should be waking up when the sun tells them to, and go to sleep when their body tells them to, which doesn't happen because they're surrounded by light that messes up their circadian rhythm. This has a huge impact on things like anxiety. Consequently, there can't be one time that is optimal. Why do we work the hours that we do, year round? It doesn't make sense biologically, it's an artifact of industrialization.

montebicyclelo 6y ago
https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/12/12/high-school-start-times-study/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/12/12/high-school-start... > “Research to date has shown that the circadian rhythms of adolescents are simply fundamentally different from those of adults and children,” said lead author Gideon Dunster, a UW doctoral student in biology. > “All of the studies of adolescent sleep patterns in the United States are showing that the time at which teens generally fall asleep is biologically determined — but the time at which they wake up is socially determined,” said Dunster. “This has severe consequences for health and well-being, because disrupted circadian rhythms can adversely affect digestion, heart rate, body temperature, immune system function, attention span and mental health.” Seen similar information from other sources, but this came up first after a quick search. Of course screen light probably makes the problem worse, but there do seem to be significant biological factors.
- gridlockd 6y ago
  There's a natural "bedtime shift" of 1-3h in adolescence, that doesn't mean it's natural for them to still be asleep when the sun is up. The one thing that disrupts the circadian rhythm dramatically is light. This is well-established and also mentioned in the article you linked.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    1-3h takes you from one side of 7AM to the other, which is generally when the sun rises around here.
gridlockd 6y ago
Downvoters who don't like to hear that playing Fortnite at 2AM takes a toll on their health: Don't shoot the messenger.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Maybe the reason they're playing Fortnite until 2AM is because they have no other time to play it because ~8 hours of their day are being absorbed by a majority of dubious-value bullshit that also comes with homework (and some people are even defending the latter)?
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    If you want to fix the world, start at home. If playing Fortnite is worth messing up your biological clock, causing you fatigue, anxiety and maybe even depression, perhaps you need to get your priorities straight first.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      My point is that maybe the problem isn't Fortnite but the fact that the system is giving these kids way too much work (when you factor in transport if they happen to live far from the school this can add another hour or two, but unlike in a full-time job they can't just switch to a closer school like they could with a job) and they don't have enough time for socializing/entertainment?
      - gridlockd 6y ago
        Fair enough, but what happens if you shift personal responsibility to some abstract concept like "the system"? Nothing. The system does not care about you, it takes no responsibility, it just is. If it changes at all, it will do so at a glacial pace, because there's a lot of interest groups involved. The school system is a bureaucracy, it's in the business of maintaining problems, not solve them.
        6y ago

montebicyclelo 6y ago

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/12/12/high-school-start-times-study/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/12/12/high-school-start... > “Research to date has shown that the circadian rhythms of adolescents are simply fundamentally different from those of adults and children,” said lead author Gideon Dunster, a UW doctoral student in biology. > “All of the studies of adolescent sleep patterns in the United States are showing that the time at which teens generally fall asleep is biologically determined — but the time at which they wake up is socially determined,” said Dunster. “This has severe consequences for health and well-being, because disrupted circadian rhythms can adversely affect digestion, heart rate, body temperature, immune system function, attention span and mental health.” Seen similar information from other sources, but this came up first after a quick search. Of course screen light probably makes the problem worse, but there do seem to be significant biological factors.

gridlockd 6y ago
There's a natural "bedtime shift" of 1-3h in adolescence, that doesn't mean it's natural for them to still be asleep when the sun is up. The one thing that disrupts the circadian rhythm dramatically is light. This is well-established and also mentioned in the article you linked.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  1-3h takes you from one side of 7AM to the other, which is generally when the sun rises around here.

gridlockd 6y ago

Downvoters who don't like to hear that playing Fortnite at 2AM takes a toll on their health: Don't shoot the messenger.

Nextgrid 6y ago
Maybe the reason they're playing Fortnite until 2AM is because they have no other time to play it because ~8 hours of their day are being absorbed by a majority of dubious-value bullshit that also comes with homework (and some people are even defending the latter)?
- gridlockd 6y ago
  If you want to fix the world, start at home. If playing Fortnite is worth messing up your biological clock, causing you fatigue, anxiety and maybe even depression, perhaps you need to get your priorities straight first.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    My point is that maybe the problem isn't Fortnite but the fact that the system is giving these kids way too much work (when you factor in transport if they happen to live far from the school this can add another hour or two, but unlike in a full-time job they can't just switch to a closer school like they could with a job) and they don't have enough time for socializing/entertainment?
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      Fair enough, but what happens if you shift personal responsibility to some abstract concept like "the system"? Nothing. The system does not care about you, it takes no responsibility, it just is. If it changes at all, it will do so at a glacial pace, because there's a lot of interest groups involved. The school system is a bureaucracy, it's in the business of maintaining problems, not solve them.
      - 6y ago