5 ms·

The idea that there can be an authority that tells good people from bad people is literally Nazi playbook.

by hkai 6y ago

VikingCoder 6y ago
I propose each person tries to tell good people from bad people, and I encourage each corporation to do the same. You're trying to pin on me that I was saying there should be a single authority, judging all people. I didn't say that, and I reject that view. Nazis were totalitarians that killed people. I'm saying a company should chose who it does business with, depending on what that person is doing. If someone wants to find another person to work with, they're welcome to try. If I agree that what they were doing is bad, then I hope they fail.
- meigwilym 6y ago
  Ten years ago I would have joined in with the others. By now though, I see your point.
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    Can you explain to me why others are downvoting? I think we should support companies that each of us think act responsibly, and avoid or boycott companies that each of us think is acting irresponsibly. How is that remotely controversial?
  - hkai 6y ago
    What happened in the last ten years?
- hkai 6y ago
  The idea you describe sounds horrifying. It has been tried in the Soviet Union: if you deny a certain ideology, you'd be kicked out from university, from your job, from any public life. I don't see how copying suppression techniques from the world's most brutal regimes is making the world better.
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    It a) happens all the time, and b) is a good thing. Question for you: You walk into a job interview, and the receptionist greets you with, "Heil Hitler! How can I help you?" Not sure you heard what you thought you heard, you answer that you're here for a job interview. The receptionist tells you to have a seat. A moment later, someone comes out and says, "Heil Hitler! I'm the hiring manager, are you ready for your interview?" Do you take the interview, or do you walk out? I happen to boycott Hobby Lobby and Chic-fil-a. Is that really horrifying to you? People on Hacker News propose boycotting Google because they fired Damore, or because they were researching providing Search to China, or because they did or didn't work on AI weapons systems, or... Do you similarly berate those posters? If not, what's different about what I'm saying?
- amadeuspagel 6y ago
  Should doctors try to tell good people from bad people, to decide whether they should save someone's life? Should lawyers try to tell good people from bad people, to decide whether to take a case?
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    Doctors: great question, no, they should try to save everyone's life. If I found a doctor that didn't, I would judge them to be a bad doctor, and would boycott them. I would boycott their entire practice, hoping they would fire that doctor. Wouldn't you? Lawyers: great question. I believe when the government is prosecuting someone, they deserve a defense, so in that case, I hope some lawyer will defend them. If it's a civil case, like if Exxon is trying to sue some grandma to drill in her back yard, yes, I would hope lawyers are deciding not to take that case, and I might (if it ever came up) boycott a law firm that worked cases like that. Question back for you: You walk into a job interview, and the receptionist greets you with, "Heil Hitler! How can I help you?" Not sure you heard what you thought you heard, you answer that you're here for a job interview. The receptionist tells you to have a seat. A moment later, someone comes out and says, "Heil Hitler! I'm the hiring manager, are you ready for your interview?" Do you take the interview, or do you walk out? We do and should judge people based on their actions, and we should shun people who make extremely bad decisions. Like following Hitler. Like normalizing pedophelia. Like advocating for a race war. Like selling arms to terrorists. Like selling blood diamonds. I think it would be wrong for a Catholic to boycott a Lutheran business. I happen to think it's wrong for a cake maker to not make a cake for a gay wedding. I might even boycott that baker. I don't go to Chic-fil-a or Hobby Lobby. Which parts of this reply seem weird to you?
    - amadeuspagel 6y ago
      I wouldn't want to work with or socially interact with Nazis. But this doesn't seem relevant in the context of infrastructure companies like Patreon. There's a difference between providing a formalized service to someone and putting your creativity and energy into working with them. In providing a formalized service, companies like Patreon are more akin to doctors and lawyers then to coworkers and friends.
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  This is totalitarianism.
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    Let's be very careful about definitions. "Totalitarianism: a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state." I am proposing that private individuals and corporations don't do business with moral monsters, like say for instance, Nazis. If a jewelry store sells blood diamonds, I propose to boycott them. If a shoe is manufactured by slave child labor in China, I propose to not buy it. It sure sounds like Nestle is doing some awful stuff around the world, maybe we shouldn't buy from them, either. Do you really disagree with those positions? Because this is just Free Association, where people have the right to associate or do business with whomever they like. And it could happen under a completely Libertarian government. Or even under an anarcho-capitalist or anarcho-communist society. Basically, the exact opposite of Totalitarian government. Sounds like maybe you boycott businesses that work with totalitarian governments?

The idea that there can be an authority that tells good people from bad people is literally Nazi playbook.

by hkai 6y ago

The idea that there can be an authority that tells good people from bad people is literally Nazi playbook.

I propose each person tries to tell good people from bad people, and I encourage each corporation to do the same. You're trying to pin on me that I was saying there should be a single authority, judging all people. I didn't say that, and I reject that view. Nazis were totalitarians that killed people. I'm saying a company should chose who it does business with, depending on what that person is doing. If someone wants to find another person to work with, they're welcome to try. If I agree that what they were doing is bad, then I hope they fail.

meigwilym 6y ago
Ten years ago I would have joined in with the others. By now though, I see your point.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  Can you explain to me why others are downvoting? I think we should support companies that each of us think act responsibly, and avoid or boycott companies that each of us think is acting irresponsibly. How is that remotely controversial?
- hkai 6y ago
  What happened in the last ten years?
hkai 6y ago
The idea you describe sounds horrifying. It has been tried in the Soviet Union: if you deny a certain ideology, you'd be kicked out from university, from your job, from any public life. I don't see how copying suppression techniques from the world's most brutal regimes is making the world better.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  It a) happens all the time, and b) is a good thing. Question for you: You walk into a job interview, and the receptionist greets you with, "Heil Hitler! How can I help you?" Not sure you heard what you thought you heard, you answer that you're here for a job interview. The receptionist tells you to have a seat. A moment later, someone comes out and says, "Heil Hitler! I'm the hiring manager, are you ready for your interview?" Do you take the interview, or do you walk out? I happen to boycott Hobby Lobby and Chic-fil-a. Is that really horrifying to you? People on Hacker News propose boycotting Google because they fired Damore, or because they were researching providing Search to China, or because they did or didn't work on AI weapons systems, or... Do you similarly berate those posters? If not, what's different about what I'm saying?
amadeuspagel 6y ago
Should doctors try to tell good people from bad people, to decide whether they should save someone's life? Should lawyers try to tell good people from bad people, to decide whether to take a case?
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  Doctors: great question, no, they should try to save everyone's life. If I found a doctor that didn't, I would judge them to be a bad doctor, and would boycott them. I would boycott their entire practice, hoping they would fire that doctor. Wouldn't you? Lawyers: great question. I believe when the government is prosecuting someone, they deserve a defense, so in that case, I hope some lawyer will defend them. If it's a civil case, like if Exxon is trying to sue some grandma to drill in her back yard, yes, I would hope lawyers are deciding not to take that case, and I might (if it ever came up) boycott a law firm that worked cases like that. Question back for you: You walk into a job interview, and the receptionist greets you with, "Heil Hitler! How can I help you?" Not sure you heard what you thought you heard, you answer that you're here for a job interview. The receptionist tells you to have a seat. A moment later, someone comes out and says, "Heil Hitler! I'm the hiring manager, are you ready for your interview?" Do you take the interview, or do you walk out? We do and should judge people based on their actions, and we should shun people who make extremely bad decisions. Like following Hitler. Like normalizing pedophelia. Like advocating for a race war. Like selling arms to terrorists. Like selling blood diamonds. I think it would be wrong for a Catholic to boycott a Lutheran business. I happen to think it's wrong for a cake maker to not make a cake for a gay wedding. I might even boycott that baker. I don't go to Chic-fil-a or Hobby Lobby. Which parts of this reply seem weird to you?
  - amadeuspagel 6y ago
    I wouldn't want to work with or socially interact with Nazis. But this doesn't seem relevant in the context of infrastructure companies like Patreon. There's a difference between providing a formalized service to someone and putting your creativity and energy into working with them. In providing a formalized service, companies like Patreon are more akin to doctors and lawyers then to coworkers and friends.
baggy_trough 6y ago
This is totalitarianism.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  Let's be very careful about definitions. "Totalitarianism: a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state." I am proposing that private individuals and corporations don't do business with moral monsters, like say for instance, Nazis. If a jewelry store sells blood diamonds, I propose to boycott them. If a shoe is manufactured by slave child labor in China, I propose to not buy it. It sure sounds like Nestle is doing some awful stuff around the world, maybe we shouldn't buy from them, either. Do you really disagree with those positions? Because this is just Free Association, where people have the right to associate or do business with whomever they like. And it could happen under a completely Libertarian government. Or even under an anarcho-capitalist or anarcho-communist society. Basically, the exact opposite of Totalitarian government. Sounds like maybe you boycott businesses that work with totalitarian governments?