10 ms·

They are another facebook. They will turn cancerous very soon, if they haven't already.

rafamvc 6y ago
Why? Jack is a fine man. They are in a hard place to please everyone.
avolcano 6y ago
The two questions to me are (a) what content will they ban and (b) how badly do they want to increase their cut of pledges? For (a), they've already banned a lot of adult content (thus the rise of OnlyFans, until they follow suit), and they'll probably ban more if they get enough attention from either media, angry card processors, or both. For (b), they've already narrowly avoided fucking this up once back in 2017 (https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure). They increased fees in 2019 (https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024952552-Patreon-Creator-Plans https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024952552-P...) but at least grandfathered in past users, preventing their existing userbase from being too much of a flight risk.
- judge2020 6y ago
  To add to a) they have flagged gay porn as CP [0], and are generally banning anime porn with certain features [1] (both articles have links to other Patreon-related articles if you'd like more examples, such as kicking creators off for content violations that happen off-patreon). The issue seems to stem from payment processors pressuring Patreon to stop supporting creators that don't follow their values since both Visa and MC forbid adult content [2]. All links are NSFW, but not graphic unless you open the embedded tweets. 0: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-yaoi-deepthroat/ https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-yaoi-deepthroat/ 1: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-anime-porn-ban/ https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-anime-porn-ban/ 2: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqwwj/patreon-suspension-of-adult-content-creators https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqwwj/patreon-suspension...
- gundmc 6y ago
  > For (a), they've already banned a lot of adult content (thus the rise of OnlyFans, until they follow suit) How would OnlyFans follow suit on that? Isn't their entire thing adult content?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    They'll be fine since the credit card processor pushback is unlikely since they seem to use ccbill which is generally OK with adult content: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24294801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24294801
- Applejinx 6y ago
  Adult content on an international scale is REALLY tough. I'm not a bit surprised there are problems. If you're at all familiar with the issues of building a public-facing business on adult content, you know that there are entire industries (hint: VISA credit card processing) that will categorically refuse to let you be in that business at all, or to deal with you if you're facilitating it. Patreon must maintain working relationships with VISA. There are countries in which it is a criminal act to expose the belly. Patreon attempts to operate internationally, which means the content creators they enable become part of a negotiation where countries like that are at risk of demanding Patreon get rid of ALL 'criminal' creators or be refused permission to operate in the country. Adult content is a hell of a can of worms. To facilitate it at ALL at this scale is impressive. And the issues we run into are not coming from inside the Patreon-like company: if anything, their scale helps them negotiate terms. It's the credit card companies, the restrictive countries, which are setting the terms, and what Patreon facilitates is already an impressive feat within the context of what you can get away with anywhere else. Seriously, if you're casting aspersions at Patreon over handling of adult-content creators, first try to make a dildo company and then negotiate being able to accept direct payments through VISA :) (disclaimer: I have not actually made a dildo company and then tried to negotiate being able to accept direct payments through VISA)
tehwebguy 6y ago
Serious question, what are you talking about?
- aaron695 6y ago
  Certainly don't want to talk the merits, but on top of the other comments in this thread - It's 30 mins but you can flick through or 2x it if you are genuinely interested why some people are anti-Patreon Goodbye to Patreon - Dave Rubin and Jordan B Peterson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_OrrvaVVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_OrrvaVVw
  - tehwebguy 6y ago
    OK so these 2 influencers don't like Patreon but I'm trying to figure out why the OP says it's "another facebook" and "cancerous" and not sure if those 2 have the same reasons as the poster.
    - aaron695 6y ago
      Maybe OP might jump in. Its how I read it, just a simple, large tech organisation (Facebook) controlling people. And a lot of people use to say Patreon was finally a healthy way to do Youtube without having to worry about de-monetisation. Then Patreon also started restricting content more and more (cancer)
bishalb 6y ago
Cancel culture is already too strong with Patreon.
asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
You gonna share some details with us? or are we taking you at your word here
aaron695 6y ago
> They will turn cancerous very soon They are already cancer. So not sure where this "very soon" comes from. This extra money to Patreon is just another example of morality and trying to work towards a common good can't beat evil incumbents (Without becoming the evil incumbent perhaps) Neutral platforms just don't seem possible, maybe Bitcoin might change that, but it's place seems like a solid alternative to mainstream, never mainstream.

Why? Jack is a fine man. They are in a hard place to please everyone.

The two questions to me are (a) what content will they ban and (b) how badly do they want to increase their cut of pledges? For (a), they've already banned a lot of adult content (thus the rise of OnlyFans, until they follow suit), and they'll probably ban more if they get enough attention from either media, angry card processors, or both. For (b), they've already narrowly avoided fucking this up once back in 2017 (https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure). They increased fees in 2019 (https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024952552-Patreon-Creator-Plans https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024952552-P...) but at least grandfathered in past users, preventing their existing userbase from being too much of a flight risk.

judge2020 6y ago
To add to a) they have flagged gay porn as CP [0], and are generally banning anime porn with certain features [1] (both articles have links to other Patreon-related articles if you'd like more examples, such as kicking creators off for content violations that happen off-patreon). The issue seems to stem from payment processors pressuring Patreon to stop supporting creators that don't follow their values since both Visa and MC forbid adult content [2]. All links are NSFW, but not graphic unless you open the embedded tweets. 0: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-yaoi-deepthroat/ https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-yaoi-deepthroat/ 1: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-anime-porn-ban/ https://www.dailydot.com/irl/patreon-anime-porn-ban/ 2: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqwwj/patreon-suspension-of-adult-content-creators https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqwwj/patreon-suspension...
gundmc 6y ago
> For (a), they've already banned a lot of adult content (thus the rise of OnlyFans, until they follow suit) How would OnlyFans follow suit on that? Isn't their entire thing adult content?
- judge2020 6y ago
  They'll be fine since the credit card processor pushback is unlikely since they seem to use ccbill which is generally OK with adult content: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24294801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24294801
Applejinx 6y ago
Adult content on an international scale is REALLY tough. I'm not a bit surprised there are problems. If you're at all familiar with the issues of building a public-facing business on adult content, you know that there are entire industries (hint: VISA credit card processing) that will categorically refuse to let you be in that business at all, or to deal with you if you're facilitating it. Patreon must maintain working relationships with VISA. There are countries in which it is a criminal act to expose the belly. Patreon attempts to operate internationally, which means the content creators they enable become part of a negotiation where countries like that are at risk of demanding Patreon get rid of ALL 'criminal' creators or be refused permission to operate in the country. Adult content is a hell of a can of worms. To facilitate it at ALL at this scale is impressive. And the issues we run into are not coming from inside the Patreon-like company: if anything, their scale helps them negotiate terms. It's the credit card companies, the restrictive countries, which are setting the terms, and what Patreon facilitates is already an impressive feat within the context of what you can get away with anywhere else. Seriously, if you're casting aspersions at Patreon over handling of adult-content creators, first try to make a dildo company and then negotiate being able to accept direct payments through VISA :) (disclaimer: I have not actually made a dildo company and then tried to negotiate being able to accept direct payments through VISA)

tehwebguy 6y ago

Serious question, what are you talking about?

aaron695 6y ago
Certainly don't want to talk the merits, but on top of the other comments in this thread - It's 30 mins but you can flick through or 2x it if you are genuinely interested why some people are anti-Patreon Goodbye to Patreon - Dave Rubin and Jordan B Peterson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_OrrvaVVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_OrrvaVVw
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  OK so these 2 influencers don't like Patreon but I'm trying to figure out why the OP says it's "another facebook" and "cancerous" and not sure if those 2 have the same reasons as the poster.
  - aaron695 6y ago
    Maybe OP might jump in. Its how I read it, just a simple, large tech organisation (Facebook) controlling people. And a lot of people use to say Patreon was finally a healthy way to do Youtube without having to worry about de-monetisation. Then Patreon also started restricting content more and more (cancer)

bishalb 6y ago

Cancel culture is already too strong with Patreon.

asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago

You gonna share some details with us? or are we taking you at your word here

aaron695 6y ago

> They will turn cancerous very soon They are already cancer. So not sure where this "very soon" comes from. This extra money to Patreon is just another example of morality and trying to work towards a common good can't beat evil incumbents (Without becoming the evil incumbent perhaps) Neutral platforms just don't seem possible, maybe Bitcoin might change that, but it's place seems like a solid alternative to mainstream, never mainstream.