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We shut down the entire world and it killed over 100,000 in the US alone in 3 months. There's no suspicious conspiracy surrounding Covid19, it really is a very

We shut down the entire world and it killed over 100,000 in the US alone in 3 months. There's no suspicious conspiracy surrounding Covid19, it really is a very infectious and capable of killing a lot more than it already has.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
It's the third leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. And no one has ever shut down a fast food restaurant to prevent the propagation of heart disease. It's bad but it's being severely over exaggerated.
- ende 6y ago
  Are you really this stupid?
- ChrisGranger 6y ago
  Call me when cheeseburgers become contagious.
- andrei_says_ 6y ago
  Nice job repeating snappy talking points but this comparison is malicious, unfounded and indicates a bad faith argument.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Just doesn't make sense to me that we dont ban cigarettes, we don't ban fast food restaurants... Yet we shut down the entire economy and all of human life as we know it for something with less of the death rate than both of those illnesses. And there's mountains of scientific evidence supporting those directly lead to their respective ailments.
    - drwiggly 6y ago
      How many of those factors spread on accident vs personal choice? ~300,000,00 in the US ~2% death rate .. 6,000,000? Is that enough bodies?
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        You act like there's an alternative. The only way out is through, it's all just delaying otherwise.
      - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
        Where are you getting a 2% death rate or expectancy that 100% of the population will be infected? The numbers I've seen are 0.66% death rate, with an average remaining life expectancy of about 10 years among those who die, and estimates that between 15% and 70% of the population would be infected. 70% of 0.66% of 328M is 1.5M deaths, or 15M years of life lost. That is indeed a big number. Smoking has been estimated to reduce life expectancy by 13 years for heavy smokers. There are about 34M smokers in the US. I don't have the exact stats on number of heavy smokers and how long people smoke for, but assume that the average smoker smokes for 20 years and loses 5 years of life expectancy over that time. That's about 850,000 years of life lost _every single year_ to smoking alone. I think the question of "would it be worth 5% of the current COVID-19 measures to stop smoking entirely for 1 year" is a valid one.
        andrei_says_ 6y ago
        It would be if smoking was an infectious disease.
        nickthemagicman 6y ago
        This activity smoking causes a disease. Leaving quarantine causes a disease. It's personal choice to do either activity and corona is the only disease where it's somehow the rest of the worlds responsibility for people making poor choices.
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
  - thu2111 6y ago
    You're personally attacking someone for making a genuine argument, as is clear from both its content and that person's messages elsewhere in this thread. You may not like the comparison but to call it "malicious" is not OK. Play the ball, not the man.
bsder 6y ago
Except that we DIDN'T shut down the world. That was the whole damn problem in the US. The Northeastern states actually shut down. They're now under 50 new cases per day per 1 million people. Their deaths are mostly flat (just slightly increasing) at this point. And I suspect a lot of that is now being imported. The Southeastern states didn't do crap. They're mostly all above 200 new cases per day per million. Then you have states like California that kinda/sorta shutdown. They're scattered about 100 new cases per day per million. We could have stopped this. We could have been flat in number of deaths as of June 1 like most of the European countries. But we didn't. Instead, we're on the same trajectory as "shithole" (to borrow the MAGA terminology) countries like Brazil, India, and Mexico. And, now states like Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arizona are on a trajectory to cross over states like Rhode Island, Connecticut and Massachusetts in terms of number of deaths per million. And the economy is in a shambles anyway. So, lots of people died, and we got nothing for it.
- lsllc 6y ago
  It's interesting that the NE states seem to now be lauded when actually NJ, NY, MA and CT have the highest per-capita death rates [0] in the WORLD [1] by far despite significant lockdowns, comprehensive & early mask mandates and fairly conservative reopening (e.g. NYC). Although New England seems to be doing well since earlier in the summer, we did NOT do well overall. For example, MA at #3 has had 8831 deaths for 6.9M people. The average age of the dead is 82, 65% of all deaths from long term care homes [2] -- this was a failure to protect the vulnerable. As for NE cases being imported, we saw a small uptick on Cape Cod with vacationers (resulting in Baker's recent travel order) but the back-to-school has only found a few dozen positive cases over the last few weeks despite massive and ongoing testing [3]. I'm not sure your comment about "most of the European countries" is correct. France is seeing near-record cases [4] Spain has seen a very significant surge [5] resulting in a lockdown of the Barcelona area and Germany is also seeing a worrying uptick in cases [6]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat... [2] https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-dashboard-september-1-2020/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-dashboard-september-1-2020... [3] https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusMa/comments/ig1n1x/current_list_of_ma_collegeuniversity_covid19/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusMa/comments/ig1n1x/curre... [4] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ [5] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ [6] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
deleted 6y ago
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nickthemagicman 6y ago
Complete worldwide infections are 25 million that are known. There's around a 40-50% asymptomatic number so the total estimated infections so far are around 40 million. Total deaths is around 800,000. .02 death rate on average and it drops drastically the younger a person is. Depending on your risk tolerance, to many people, that's not worth destroying life as we know it. Especially because the death rate of heart disease and cancer is higher than this and has easily targeted reasons with mountains of scientific evidence that could reduce the death rates. It just seems like propaganda and we're making a bigger deal out of it than necessary.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Comparing death rates doesn't mean much if the number infected for covid is orders of magnitude higher. Even if it turns out to be about .02%, we are looking at a death toll like the world has never seen if everyone gets infected. And that's not taking into account hospitals becoming overwhelmed and causing deaths to skyrocket.
- bagacrap 6y ago
  The math based on your figured is .02 as in 2%, not 0.02%, and that would indeed be pretty bad but there's a dramatic amount of undercounting of the survivors so your numbers are a bit pointless. (Also if to be fair we're lacking a lot of deaths particular in Russia, China, Iran etc.)
- lefrenchy 6y ago
  Cancer and heart disease are not contagious like Covid-19 is, why is this ridiculous equating done so often? It’s apples to oranges... Also, some studies seem to suggest we’re actually undercounting the death rate [0]. Combine that with likely under reported data in Russia, China, and other countries, it’s clearly a significant threat. I think it’s kind of crazy to say preventing potentially 10s of millions of people from dying is not a big deal and propaganda. Seems like searching for a grand narrative in something that’s rather pretty cut and dry.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  1. Death is not the only health problem caused by COVID-19. Patients who survive are also coming out with persistent lung damage and respiratory problems. Nobody knows the very long term (more than a year) health effects either. 2. “Destroying life as we know it” is a pretty dramatic way of saying “Stay home, wear a mask when you have to go out, and wait until things are better to get your nails done.” Plus, lots of people are not even doing that! They’re out horsing around anyway, putting more people at risk and further extending the crisis.
duckMuppet 6y ago
You can decrease your odds of dying by about 50% just by not being over 70 or in a nursing home in a state with a democratic governor off you live in the USA. Democratic governors were practically executing old folks in droves. If you look at recent CDC info, they finally put out some data on how many deaths are FROM covid, not with it. And yes, it's around 6%. Of people not executed by a Democrat governor, that's around 10000 people. So everyone else died while having covid, like the kid who died riding a motorcycle in Florida or ppl with other co morbidity such as cancer, dementia, and diabetes. Don't worry though, it'll be done in November, unless Trump gets re-elected. Then I'm sure everyone will need to wait for a vaccine because according to the CDC, i mean the news, kids 18-24 are barely surviving this"pandemic".. Not to mention all the bodies costco has had to bury since they were open during the first few months with no masks. Thankfully they've come up with a better solution than burning workers and shoppers in mass graves, China style.. Yeh no.. There's a lot of people that should feel ashamed and should go to jail, but none of them do and none of them will.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

It's the third leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer. And no one has ever shut down a fast food restaurant to prevent the propagation of heart disease. It's bad but it's being severely over exaggerated.

ende 6y ago
Are you really this stupid?
ChrisGranger 6y ago
Call me when cheeseburgers become contagious.
andrei_says_ 6y ago
Nice job repeating snappy talking points but this comparison is malicious, unfounded and indicates a bad faith argument.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Just doesn't make sense to me that we dont ban cigarettes, we don't ban fast food restaurants... Yet we shut down the entire economy and all of human life as we know it for something with less of the death rate than both of those illnesses. And there's mountains of scientific evidence supporting those directly lead to their respective ailments.
  - drwiggly 6y ago
    How many of those factors spread on accident vs personal choice? ~300,000,00 in the US ~2% death rate .. 6,000,000? Is that enough bodies?
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      You act like there's an alternative. The only way out is through, it's all just delaying otherwise.
    - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
      Where are you getting a 2% death rate or expectancy that 100% of the population will be infected? The numbers I've seen are 0.66% death rate, with an average remaining life expectancy of about 10 years among those who die, and estimates that between 15% and 70% of the population would be infected. 70% of 0.66% of 328M is 1.5M deaths, or 15M years of life lost. That is indeed a big number. Smoking has been estimated to reduce life expectancy by 13 years for heavy smokers. There are about 34M smokers in the US. I don't have the exact stats on number of heavy smokers and how long people smoke for, but assume that the average smoker smokes for 20 years and loses 5 years of life expectancy over that time. That's about 850,000 years of life lost _every single year_ to smoking alone. I think the question of "would it be worth 5% of the current COVID-19 measures to stop smoking entirely for 1 year" is a valid one.
      - andrei_says_ 6y ago
        It would be if smoking was an infectious disease.
        nickthemagicman 6y ago
        This activity smoking causes a disease. Leaving quarantine causes a disease. It's personal choice to do either activity and corona is the only disease where it's somehow the rest of the worlds responsibility for people making poor choices.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
- thu2111 6y ago
  You're personally attacking someone for making a genuine argument, as is clear from both its content and that person's messages elsewhere in this thread. You may not like the comparison but to call it "malicious" is not OK. Play the ball, not the man.

bsder 6y ago

Except that we DIDN'T shut down the world. That was the whole damn problem in the US. The Northeastern states actually shut down. They're now under 50 new cases per day per 1 million people. Their deaths are mostly flat (just slightly increasing) at this point. And I suspect a lot of that is now being imported. The Southeastern states didn't do crap. They're mostly all above 200 new cases per day per million. Then you have states like California that kinda/sorta shutdown. They're scattered about 100 new cases per day per million. We could have stopped this. We could have been flat in number of deaths as of June 1 like most of the European countries. But we didn't. Instead, we're on the same trajectory as "shithole" (to borrow the MAGA terminology) countries like Brazil, India, and Mexico. And, now states like Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arizona are on a trajectory to cross over states like Rhode Island, Connecticut and Massachusetts in terms of number of deaths per million. And the economy is in a shambles anyway. So, lots of people died, and we got nothing for it.

lsllc 6y ago
It's interesting that the NE states seem to now be lauded when actually NJ, NY, MA and CT have the highest per-capita death rates [0] in the WORLD [1] by far despite significant lockdowns, comprehensive & early mask mandates and fairly conservative reopening (e.g. NYC). Although New England seems to be doing well since earlier in the summer, we did NOT do well overall. For example, MA at #3 has had 8831 deaths for 6.9M people. The average age of the dead is 82, 65% of all deaths from long term care homes [2] -- this was a failure to protect the vulnerable. As for NE cases being imported, we saw a small uptick on Cape Cod with vacationers (resulting in Baker's recent travel order) but the back-to-school has only found a few dozen positive cases over the last few weeks despite massive and ongoing testing [3]. I'm not sure your comment about "most of the European countries" is correct. France is seeing near-record cases [4] Spain has seen a very significant surge [5] resulting in a lockdown of the Barcelona area and Germany is also seeing a worrying uptick in cases [6]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat... [2] https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-dashboard-september-1-2020/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/covid-19-dashboard-september-1-2020... [3] https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusMa/comments/ig1n1x/current_list_of_ma_collegeuniversity_covid19/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusMa/comments/ig1n1x/curre... [4] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ [5] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ [6] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nickthemagicman 6y ago

Complete worldwide infections are 25 million that are known. There's around a 40-50% asymptomatic number so the total estimated infections so far are around 40 million. Total deaths is around 800,000. .02 death rate on average and it drops drastically the younger a person is. Depending on your risk tolerance, to many people, that's not worth destroying life as we know it. Especially because the death rate of heart disease and cancer is higher than this and has easily targeted reasons with mountains of scientific evidence that could reduce the death rates. It just seems like propaganda and we're making a bigger deal out of it than necessary.

jjeaff 6y ago
Comparing death rates doesn't mean much if the number infected for covid is orders of magnitude higher. Even if it turns out to be about .02%, we are looking at a death toll like the world has never seen if everyone gets infected. And that's not taking into account hospitals becoming overwhelmed and causing deaths to skyrocket.
bagacrap 6y ago
The math based on your figured is .02 as in 2%, not 0.02%, and that would indeed be pretty bad but there's a dramatic amount of undercounting of the survivors so your numbers are a bit pointless. (Also if to be fair we're lacking a lot of deaths particular in Russia, China, Iran etc.)
lefrenchy 6y ago
Cancer and heart disease are not contagious like Covid-19 is, why is this ridiculous equating done so often? It’s apples to oranges... Also, some studies seem to suggest we’re actually undercounting the death rate [0]. Combine that with likely under reported data in Russia, China, and other countries, it’s clearly a significant threat. I think it’s kind of crazy to say preventing potentially 10s of millions of people from dying is not a big deal and propaganda. Seems like searching for a grand narrative in something that’s rather pretty cut and dry.
ryandrake 6y ago
1. Death is not the only health problem caused by COVID-19. Patients who survive are also coming out with persistent lung damage and respiratory problems. Nobody knows the very long term (more than a year) health effects either. 2. “Destroying life as we know it” is a pretty dramatic way of saying “Stay home, wear a mask when you have to go out, and wait until things are better to get your nails done.” Plus, lots of people are not even doing that! They’re out horsing around anyway, putting more people at risk and further extending the crisis.

duckMuppet 6y ago

You can decrease your odds of dying by about 50% just by not being over 70 or in a nursing home in a state with a democratic governor off you live in the USA. Democratic governors were practically executing old folks in droves. If you look at recent CDC info, they finally put out some data on how many deaths are FROM covid, not with it. And yes, it's around 6%. Of people not executed by a Democrat governor, that's around 10000 people. So everyone else died while having covid, like the kid who died riding a motorcycle in Florida or ppl with other co morbidity such as cancer, dementia, and diabetes. Don't worry though, it'll be done in November, unless Trump gets re-elected. Then I'm sure everyone will need to wait for a vaccine because according to the CDC, i mean the news, kids 18-24 are barely surviving this"pandemic".. Not to mention all the bodies costco has had to bury since they were open during the first few months with no masks. Thankfully they've come up with a better solution than burning workers and shoppers in mass graves, China style.. Yeh no.. There's a lot of people that should feel ashamed and should go to jail, but none of them do and none of them will.