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We also have more police violence and a more militarized police force than ever before. When a dude pulls up to me in a tank and beats the fuck out of me becau

We also have more police violence and a more militarized police force than ever before. When a dude pulls up to me in a tank and beats the fuck out of me because I’m dealing pot (Oh and whoops happened to be black), who is in the wrong? Maybe they should, you know, have a social worker talk to me instead? Do we need tanks and grenades to solve these problems? Let’s see if you change your tune after a cop beats your face in. Or arrests you for some charge they just made up. But they won’t, because you probably don’t look like the people they do that to. I genuinely despise your complete lack of experience or perspective. I guarantee you have never had some jack-booted thug screaming in your face about you breaking some law, while he beats your buddies head in. In the back, his partner just laughing. And then you go to jail, and your friend is dead.

godelski 6y ago
I think this is where a lot of people get angry and something "the other side" doesn't understand. Much of this is about the punishment not fitting the crime. It isn't about "no punishment" or "letting everyone go in absolute anarchy" but rather that a non-violent pot dealer shouldn't be beat up. Jail? Sure, because that's the law (even if I don't agree with the law and wish to change it). But I can think of VERY few instances where beating up a criminal would be acceptable in a civilized society. Punishment should be focused around minimal harm done (with a goal of 0 harm) and a path forward to reduce chance or relapse of that behavior.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  What is missing at least in the US is different degrees of response from the government to different incidents. Guy is seen selling pot. Someone calls saying her neighbors are yelling at each other. A kid is caught shoplifting by a store owner. A student threatens a teacher in school. Someone's drunk and starting fights in a bar. School guidance Councilor thinks one of their students are being abused at home. Man dressed in black sneaking around outside your house. In the USA, each of these incidents are responded to in the exact same way: Fully armed law enforcement swooping in to violently control the situation, crush skulls, and arrest anyone they can justify arresting. There is no attempt to fit the response to the incident. We seem to have only one tool to solve every problem: Law Enforcement. And Law Enforcement has only one tool they use to do their job: Ultra Violence. Each of those above scenarios can be better addressed by some social worker or other unarmed government employee. Yet we keep sending in the militarized skull crushers for everything.
  - godelski 6y ago
    I completely agree. I think we agree that the punishment (ultra violence from a cop) does not fit the crime. I see the US as asking too much from cops and giving cops more military. Training (albeit __far__ less than the most basic of what is needed to handle situations) convinces them that they are experts in how to handle the situations. Military gear convinces them that these are the tools that they should use. In other words, if you expect someone to fix your computer don't hand them a hammer and train them by teaching them html. Specialization is an okay thing and is often successful.
  - google234123 6y ago
    "Ultra Violence" is such a silly term. Anyway, cops don't response to those cases you mentioned by crush skulls. Anyway, the people you send to deal with those cases have to be ready for the worst otherwise you are risking their lives. I don't think you will be able to find people want to go deal with those situation without any backup or deterrence.

godelski 6y ago

I think this is where a lot of people get angry and something "the other side" doesn't understand. Much of this is about the punishment not fitting the crime. It isn't about "no punishment" or "letting everyone go in absolute anarchy" but rather that a non-violent pot dealer shouldn't be beat up. Jail? Sure, because that's the law (even if I don't agree with the law and wish to change it). But I can think of VERY few instances where beating up a criminal would be acceptable in a civilized society. Punishment should be focused around minimal harm done (with a goal of 0 harm) and a path forward to reduce chance or relapse of that behavior.

ryandrake 6y ago
What is missing at least in the US is different degrees of response from the government to different incidents. Guy is seen selling pot. Someone calls saying her neighbors are yelling at each other. A kid is caught shoplifting by a store owner. A student threatens a teacher in school. Someone's drunk and starting fights in a bar. School guidance Councilor thinks one of their students are being abused at home. Man dressed in black sneaking around outside your house. In the USA, each of these incidents are responded to in the exact same way: Fully armed law enforcement swooping in to violently control the situation, crush skulls, and arrest anyone they can justify arresting. There is no attempt to fit the response to the incident. We seem to have only one tool to solve every problem: Law Enforcement. And Law Enforcement has only one tool they use to do their job: Ultra Violence. Each of those above scenarios can be better addressed by some social worker or other unarmed government employee. Yet we keep sending in the militarized skull crushers for everything.
- godelski 6y ago
  I completely agree. I think we agree that the punishment (ultra violence from a cop) does not fit the crime. I see the US as asking too much from cops and giving cops more military. Training (albeit __far__ less than the most basic of what is needed to handle situations) convinces them that they are experts in how to handle the situations. Military gear convinces them that these are the tools that they should use. In other words, if you expect someone to fix your computer don't hand them a hammer and train them by teaching them html. Specialization is an okay thing and is often successful.
- google234123 6y ago
  "Ultra Violence" is such a silly term. Anyway, cops don't response to those cases you mentioned by crush skulls. Anyway, the people you send to deal with those cases have to be ready for the worst otherwise you are risking their lives. I don't think you will be able to find people want to go deal with those situation without any backup or deterrence.