4 ms·

The FSF can be like that, but they also have a good point. Only Apple could get away with creating a smartphone where they hold all the cards - deciding what a

by mdasen 18y ago

The FSF can be like that, but they also have a good point. Only Apple could get away with creating a smartphone where they hold all the cards - deciding what and who can and can't develop for it. If Microsoft tried to pull something like that, we'd all cry foul. /yeah, I'm still getting an iPhone today. //hoping that in two years there will be other competitors who are more open and match the iPhone's quality

jotto 18y ago
This is the main reason Apple can ensure quality. They limit the scope of their hardware so there are no unexpected use cases. Visual voicemail "just works", the app store "just works". The problem is that the iphone appeals to geeks, and many geeks are privacy/FSF/EFF purists.
- newt0311 18y ago
  Why not instead have optional quality? Provide a set of approved programs but still let users install what ever they want.
  - jotto 18y ago
    Doesn't Microsoft Windows kind of do this? You can optionally use these "certified drivers" and software from big vendors, but there are always the long tail of apps, widgets, bleeding edge drivers, smiley faces etc, that people will always download and spoil the user experience. Point is, it doesn't work for Microsoft. It's a slippery slope, once you open your platform to anyone (which is great), you'll have a nightmare of support. I agree, the optional policy works fine for power users. I know many geeks who use Vista with no problem because they use the "certified" software.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      Right, the problem is, people blame the quality problems on Microsoft no matter where they originate. It's not worth going down that path for Apple, as they've somehow built a reputation around "it just works" despite the fact that it doesn't seem to be any more true from them than anyone else.
    - gommm 18y ago
      But we kind of have that with mac os x... For the drivers and different hardware configurations (admittedly a big part of what can cause problems) not really unless you count os x86. Bue when it comes to software, between input managers, unsanity's extensions and the unix foundation of mac os x letting us play around... we have more than enough things that could potentially spoil the user experience but it still works rather well... That's why I don't really buy the argument that applications on the iphone need to be controlled centrally for stability sake...
- axod 18y ago
  Completely agree. I'd far rather the "locked down" nature of the iPhone than random issues, bugs and crashes. For most people, the use case is to use it as a phone/browser/PDA etc. Not to use it to hack around with and develop apps for.
tlrobinson 18y ago
The mobile phone industry is traditionally very restrictive, it's not just Apple. The iPhone has brought lots of innovation and benefits to the industry, namely the concept that cell phone interfaces shouldn't suck. Things like visual voicemail are great. And AFAIK the first affordable unlimited data plan. Apple originally wasn't even planning on having a native SDK. So I'm willing to let them do it their way as long as as a consumer and developer I get most of the benefit that a fully open solution would provide.
- SwellJoe 18y ago
  And AFAIK the first affordable unlimited data plan. Not quite right. My Sidekick on T-Mobile has had a $20 unlimited data plan for many, many years (total price of service including data is $59/month, vs. the $69/month price of the 1st gen iPhone with unlimited data, or $79/month in the 2nd gen iPhone). The Palm has also been available for several years from a few carriers with a $10-$20 unlimited data plan.
  - boucher 18y ago
    The iPhone makes better use of the data plan than anyone has before. Disagree with anything else about it, but MobileSafari is by far the best browser on any phone.
    - SwellJoe 18y ago
      I made no comment about how previous data plans have been used. I was merely pointing out that the assertion that the iPhone was the first to offer an "affordable unlimited data plan" was simply untrue. I'm sure MobileSafari is better than donuts, but it has nothing to do with my comment.
KirinDave 18y ago
I think the reason that they can get away with this is this motto of excellence. Yes, the iPhone is perilously deficient in ways we traditionally identify quality with smartphones. But everything it does do, it does so damn well that it's hard to argue with it. Apple is really good at honing down to a core feature set and making that perfect to the deliberate exclusion of everything else. People recognize this and it's a somewhat unusual feeling. It's kind of like hacker-driven code shops. Someone may run off and ignore your in-shop standards and make something using weird tech or using a different protocol, but if it works like a well-oiled–perhaps magical–machine, then its likelihood of getting adopted is surprisingly high.
- michaelneale 18y ago
  >But everything it does do, it does so damn well that it's hard to argue with it. Its amazing how many people don't actually GET that point. >Someone may run off and ignore your in-shop standards and make something using weird tech or using a different protocol Yeah thats the great thing about skunkworks. Lots of great (now mainstream) stuff came from skunkworks.
michaelneale 18y ago
Couldn't agree more. What dismays me is that no one else can do better - but like you, I hope it changes.

by mdasen 18y ago

jotto 18y ago

This is the main reason Apple can ensure quality. They limit the scope of their hardware so there are no unexpected use cases. Visual voicemail "just works", the app store "just works". The problem is that the iphone appeals to geeks, and many geeks are privacy/FSF/EFF purists.

newt0311 18y ago
Why not instead have optional quality? Provide a set of approved programs but still let users install what ever they want.
- jotto 18y ago
  Doesn't Microsoft Windows kind of do this? You can optionally use these "certified drivers" and software from big vendors, but there are always the long tail of apps, widgets, bleeding edge drivers, smiley faces etc, that people will always download and spoil the user experience. Point is, it doesn't work for Microsoft. It's a slippery slope, once you open your platform to anyone (which is great), you'll have a nightmare of support. I agree, the optional policy works fine for power users. I know many geeks who use Vista with no problem because they use the "certified" software.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Right, the problem is, people blame the quality problems on Microsoft no matter where they originate. It's not worth going down that path for Apple, as they've somehow built a reputation around "it just works" despite the fact that it doesn't seem to be any more true from them than anyone else.
  - gommm 18y ago
    But we kind of have that with mac os x... For the drivers and different hardware configurations (admittedly a big part of what can cause problems) not really unless you count os x86. Bue when it comes to software, between input managers, unsanity's extensions and the unix foundation of mac os x letting us play around... we have more than enough things that could potentially spoil the user experience but it still works rather well... That's why I don't really buy the argument that applications on the iphone need to be controlled centrally for stability sake...
axod 18y ago
Completely agree. I'd far rather the "locked down" nature of the iPhone than random issues, bugs and crashes. For most people, the use case is to use it as a phone/browser/PDA etc. Not to use it to hack around with and develop apps for.

tlrobinson 18y ago

The mobile phone industry is traditionally very restrictive, it's not just Apple. The iPhone has brought lots of innovation and benefits to the industry, namely the concept that cell phone interfaces shouldn't suck. Things like visual voicemail are great. And AFAIK the first affordable unlimited data plan. Apple originally wasn't even planning on having a native SDK. So I'm willing to let them do it their way as long as as a consumer and developer I get most of the benefit that a fully open solution would provide.

SwellJoe 18y ago
And AFAIK the first affordable unlimited data plan. Not quite right. My Sidekick on T-Mobile has had a $20 unlimited data plan for many, many years (total price of service including data is $59/month, vs. the $69/month price of the 1st gen iPhone with unlimited data, or $79/month in the 2nd gen iPhone). The Palm has also been available for several years from a few carriers with a $10-$20 unlimited data plan.
- boucher 18y ago
  The iPhone makes better use of the data plan than anyone has before. Disagree with anything else about it, but MobileSafari is by far the best browser on any phone.
  - SwellJoe 18y ago
    I made no comment about how previous data plans have been used. I was merely pointing out that the assertion that the iPhone was the first to offer an "affordable unlimited data plan" was simply untrue. I'm sure MobileSafari is better than donuts, but it has nothing to do with my comment.

KirinDave 18y ago

I think the reason that they can get away with this is this motto of excellence. Yes, the iPhone is perilously deficient in ways we traditionally identify quality with smartphones. But everything it does do, it does so damn well that it's hard to argue with it. Apple is really good at honing down to a core feature set and making that perfect to the deliberate exclusion of everything else. People recognize this and it's a somewhat unusual feeling. It's kind of like hacker-driven code shops. Someone may run off and ignore your in-shop standards and make something using weird tech or using a different protocol, but if it works like a well-oiled–perhaps magical–machine, then its likelihood of getting adopted is surprisingly high.

michaelneale 18y ago
>But everything it does do, it does so damn well that it's hard to argue with it. Its amazing how many people don't actually GET that point. >Someone may run off and ignore your in-shop standards and make something using weird tech or using a different protocol Yeah thats the great thing about skunkworks. Lots of great (now mainstream) stuff came from skunkworks.

michaelneale 18y ago

Couldn't agree more. What dismays me is that no one else can do better - but like you, I hope it changes.