3 ms·

Isn't this an associate's/technical degree? To be a successful engineer/doctor/lawyer, you need some non-STEM coursework for communication, ethics, or just to e

Isn't this an associate's/technical degree? To be a successful engineer/doctor/lawyer, you need some non-STEM coursework for communication, ethics, or just to expand your view. To last point, many state colleges in the US let you transfer credits from a community/regional college easily, so you can save ~50%

robomartin 6y ago
While I do understand what you are saying, the educational deficit we are seeing is at the high school level. When I attended high school we had coursework on ethics, logic, philosophy, business, literature, languages, etc. The average high school graduate in the US is shamefully unprepared for life. My greater point is that adding $50K in non-STEM coursework as a graduation requirement is wrong. The other element of this conversation is that non-STEM departments have developed deep one-sided political bias over the last several decades. As a result they are engaged in activity almost indistinguishable from indoctrination. We are issuing government-backed loans for kids to be exposed to ever more extreme narratives with no option to opt out. And then we make them pay for those loans. This is wrong.
- greedo 6y ago
  If you think bias and indoctrination are something that only developed "over the last several decades," you're mistaken. This has been the case of all universities, since time immemorial. And the swing to the left started in the Sixties (at least in the US).
  - robomartin 6y ago
    You are, of course, absolutely correct. I said the last few decades because that is, again, as you said, the current "phase" we are on. We want universities to be places where ideas from a range of schools of thought mix and are able to be explored openly and without negative repercussions. I don't want the extreme right to own university thought any more than the extreme left. We know the consequences of mono-cultural group think are never positive. The canonical example of what happens when the extreme right owns university culture being Nazis, of course. My personal view on this is that private universities can do as they please. Any university that is publicly funded, either directly or indirectly (government guaranteed loans are an example of this) must have faculty and a culture that reflects the nation with balance and openness. The fact that our universities have tilted so far to the left isn't good for the nation. Anyone who disagrees with this should consider what things would be like if the opposite were true. If the right owned though at our universities it would be just as much of a nightmare in the making. This interview with Niall Ferguson (Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard/Stanford professor) was a real eye opener. Some might disagree, but I think the topic warrants some thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkNIOkGtnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkNIOkGtnQ
    - burfog 6y ago
      Hey, careful with that "Nazis" label. It implies a lot of things that are a poor fit for politics in the USA. It certainly doesn't just match up with the extreme right. Consider these examples: FDR actually put one ethnicity, the Japanese, in concentration camps. Harvard (proven in court) and others are discriminating against people of Asian ancestry. In 2019, 44% of colleges had segregated graduation, with black-only ceremonies. The typical Planned Parenthood is in a black community, and the founder specifically wanted to prevent that community from making more people. Are those people and institutions the extreme right?
      - robomartin 6y ago
        I meant it more as a time and event marker rather than a comparison or description of US politics. The point is universities must have balance and promote tolerance. The extremes —either extreme— are undesirable and lead to nothing good for society. I take the down-voting as evidence of sorts. I am saying we need balance and readers don’t like it. I don’t need to wonder why, I know.

robomartin 6y ago

While I do understand what you are saying, the educational deficit we are seeing is at the high school level. When I attended high school we had coursework on ethics, logic, philosophy, business, literature, languages, etc. The average high school graduate in the US is shamefully unprepared for life. My greater point is that adding $50K in non-STEM coursework as a graduation requirement is wrong. The other element of this conversation is that non-STEM departments have developed deep one-sided political bias over the last several decades. As a result they are engaged in activity almost indistinguishable from indoctrination. We are issuing government-backed loans for kids to be exposed to ever more extreme narratives with no option to opt out. And then we make them pay for those loans. This is wrong.

greedo 6y ago
If you think bias and indoctrination are something that only developed "over the last several decades," you're mistaken. This has been the case of all universities, since time immemorial. And the swing to the left started in the Sixties (at least in the US).
- robomartin 6y ago
  You are, of course, absolutely correct. I said the last few decades because that is, again, as you said, the current "phase" we are on. We want universities to be places where ideas from a range of schools of thought mix and are able to be explored openly and without negative repercussions. I don't want the extreme right to own university thought any more than the extreme left. We know the consequences of mono-cultural group think are never positive. The canonical example of what happens when the extreme right owns university culture being Nazis, of course. My personal view on this is that private universities can do as they please. Any university that is publicly funded, either directly or indirectly (government guaranteed loans are an example of this) must have faculty and a culture that reflects the nation with balance and openness. The fact that our universities have tilted so far to the left isn't good for the nation. Anyone who disagrees with this should consider what things would be like if the opposite were true. If the right owned though at our universities it would be just as much of a nightmare in the making. This interview with Niall Ferguson (Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard/Stanford professor) was a real eye opener. Some might disagree, but I think the topic warrants some thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkNIOkGtnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkNIOkGtnQ
  - burfog 6y ago
    Hey, careful with that "Nazis" label. It implies a lot of things that are a poor fit for politics in the USA. It certainly doesn't just match up with the extreme right. Consider these examples: FDR actually put one ethnicity, the Japanese, in concentration camps. Harvard (proven in court) and others are discriminating against people of Asian ancestry. In 2019, 44% of colleges had segregated graduation, with black-only ceremonies. The typical Planned Parenthood is in a black community, and the founder specifically wanted to prevent that community from making more people. Are those people and institutions the extreme right?
    - robomartin 6y ago
      I meant it more as a time and event marker rather than a comparison or description of US politics. The point is universities must have balance and promote tolerance. The extremes —either extreme— are undesirable and lead to nothing good for society. I take the down-voting as evidence of sorts. I am saying we need balance and readers don’t like it. I don’t need to wonder why, I know.