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Wow, I wasn't planning on upgrading from a 1080 (non-Ti) but the 3080 is so good and priced so well, I probably will. I just ordered a 240 Hz 1440p IPS monitor
by ZeroCool2u 6y ago
Wow, I wasn't planning on upgrading from a 1080 (non-Ti) but the 3080 is so good and priced so well, I probably will. I just ordered a 240 Hz 1440p IPS monitor and I wasn't planning to hit 240 Hz, but this makes it so easy I might as well.
My day job is primarily ML as well, so I might just go for the 3090. 24 GB of memory is a game changer for what I can do locally. I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. Ubuntu has done some great work making things easier and just work, but having them directly in the kernel would be so much nicer.
One thing I'm curious about is the RTX IO feature. The slide said it supports DirectStorage for Windows, but is there an equivalent to this for Linux? I'm hoping someone with a little more insight or an Nvidia employee may have some more information.
- option 6y ago10496 CUDA cores plus 24GB should be pretty good for ML
- nomel 6y agoedit: Wrong! Ignore/downvote! > 10496 CUDA cores Not quite. 5248 cores, each supporting double fp32.
- XCSme 6y agoBut they clearly state in the specs (for 3080): 8704 NVIDIA CUDA® Cores And 10496 for 3090.
- nomel 6y agoCorrect!
- ohnoesjmr 6y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ikok1b/explaining_amperes_cuda_core_count/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ikok1b/explaining... Seems it is half the cores but double the fp instructions. The spec talks cuda cores which is their inventive unit of measure.
- me_me_me 6y agoDon't buy it yet, usually oem versions are more optimised and better value overall. But i must say 3070 is really tempting for $500 for someone who is not looking to upgrade.
- i-am-curious 6y agoNot at all. The 20 series has excellent founders cards.
- sammycdubs 6y agoI could be wrong - but I believe Nvidia bins the chips for Founders Edition cards
- BoorishBears 6y agoThere's always a ton of speculation about it, I've seen the claim NVIDIA bins for FE cards and factory overclocked AIB cards together At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, you're paying a FE premium for early access mostly. On the plus side, this time the FE card might have a top tier cooling solution, which is why I'll probably be caving to their FE tax (and probably plenty of others, focusing on cooling was a smart move)
- sincerely 6y agoWhat does it mean to bin a chip?
- henriquez 6y agothey cherry-pick their best silicon so you can run them at higher speeds if you're overclocking or lower voltage if you want cooler temperatures and less power consumption at stock speeds.
- xxpor 6y agoBasically, after the chips are manufactured, they're not 100% uniform. Some have better performance, some have worse. In this case, it means they're reserving the best chips for the founders cards. In other cases, there have been instances where a company has two products, a high end and a low end (or medium, etc). In some of those cases, people have investigated and the chips are actually exactly the same, but the lower end product will have a core disabled or similar, depending on the exact product. That'll happen a lot of the time when the company has yield issues where too many of the chips don't have acceptable performance or one part of the chip is just broken. They'll disable the broken portion and boom, the lower end product is born. That's still a net win for them because the alternate is either to throw the entire thing away or spend more time improving the yield.
- smileybarry 6y ago> One thing I'm curious about is the RTX IO feature. Me too, but for a different reason: I wonder if it can work with BitLocker if you're using software encryption (as hardware encryption is transparent enough that the drive basically locks and unlocks). It would still save the CPU cost of decompression but it'd have to go through RAM for (AES-NI accelerated) CPU decryption either way. Maybe at that point RAM speed and latencies start to matter more. Or the feature turns off altogether. Definitely something to test.
- cercatrova 6y agoWhich monitor? I was looking at the Samsung G9.
- ZeroCool2u 6y agoThe EVE Spectrum[1]. I actually pre-ordered a while back, so got it for less than what it's priced at now. Their first project had some issues with delivery, but they seem to have done a great job with this one and I'm cautiously optimistic. [1]: https://evedevices.com/pages/full-specs https://evedevices.com/pages/full-specs
- cercatrova 6y agoHm, Eve as a whole feels pretty suspect after what they did with the V. I wonder if they'll really ship these this time, but I doubt it.
- ZeroCool2u 6y agoYeah, I read the stories, but I also read their side of the story and it seemed like they got pretty screwed with the vendor. Like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic and I'm also lucky enough that losing out on my $100 deposit isn't a financial issue for me.
- formerly_proven 6y agoThe G9 and G7 seem to suffer from the same problem that previous VA adaptive sync monitors had, i.e. brightness depends on frame rate, so the screen flickers with changing framerate. In addition to that they seem to have some issues with their firmware trampling over its own memory, causing glitch artifacts and such. I suspect they'll fix that through a firmware update.
- fluffything 6y ago> I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. Ubuntu has done some great work making things easier and just work, This has been my experience. Ubuntu "just works". What would get better with what you propose? (speaking from ignorance)
- freeone3000 6y agoWeyland still doesn't work with nv drivers, so you get to choose between a reasonable desktop display substrate and full graphics acceleration.
- fluffy87 6y agoKDE and Gnome Support Nvidia drivers on wayland.
- freeone3000 6y agoThey support nouveau. Wayland doesn't support EGS, no matter what DE you stick in front, so nv drivers are out. (Nvidia cards have two drivers on Linux, nouveau, the open-source, slow, and incompatible-with-Quadro ones, and NV, the binary blob shipped by Nvidia that people take religious exception to.)
- jborean93 6y agoGnome supports Wayland over EGS just not by default. I tried it out a few months ago and while it "works" it was somewhat buggy and I just went back to X.
- jfim 6y agoWhat's EGS in this context? I'll take it it's not the Epic Game Store, and searching for Wayland EGS only lands on this HN comment.
- freeone3000 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- elipsey 6y ago>> My day job is primarily ML as well, so I might just go for the 3090. 24 GB of memory is a game changer for what I can do locally. I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. What is your ML dev environment like?
- ZeroCool2u 6y agoWe have a small team of 7, so after a lot of bureaucratic navigation I got us custom built desktops for local experimentation with 2080 Ti's and for the rest we use your typical cloud providers. Personally, I'm partial to GCP, because of the TPU support and BigQuery, but AWS is fine too.
- elipsey 6y agoInteresting, thanks.
- godelski 6y ago> I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. This has always confused me. They are pushing ML hard, yet we often use Linux for that kind of work. And these cards are the ones expected to be used in universities and home labs. Linux drivers that "just work" would be a big push forward to really show that they are trying to push for ML development.
- dragandj 6y agoI have several nvidia GPUs of different generations on Linux, and Nvidia drivers + CUDA "just work". They are closed source - that's bad - but I don't get what people are complaining about related to "just working". They DO "just work" (Arch Linux, both package and BLOB install...
- ChuckNorris89 6y agoBecause some DEs like KDE have devs behind them that don't want to deal with non Open Source blobs out of principle so you get a terrible experience with Nvidia. Gnome is usually fine.
- emilsedgh 6y agoIsn't it funny and ironic, since Gnome is a GNU project and was created because KDE (Qt) wasn't FOSS enough.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Miraste 6y agoThey don't "just work" with Wayland, i.e. the future of Linux desktop.
- jakear 6y agoIs this just for gaming/etc or does the desktop environment also cause issues if you’re just trying to use it as a highly parallel compute device?
- sharken 6y agoAm in the same situation, the 1080 is still holding up well, but the 3080 looks very tempting indeed. Looking forward to some benchmarks that evaluate the difference between PCIe 3.0 and 4.0. Getting a new motherboard with PCIe 4.0 along with a CPU will up the cost considerably, so hopefully that can be avoided. Also considering an upgrade to the Corsair RM1000x PSU which should be able to be totally silent even with the RTX 3080 according to https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7376/corsair-rm1000x-1000w-80-plus-gold-power-supply-review/index.html#Test-System-and-Results https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7376/corsair-rm1000x-1000w.... UPDATE: According to this answer, using PCIe 3.0 should not make a huge difference: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/iko4u7/geforce_rtx_30series_community_qa_submit_your/g3m0z4s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/iko4u7/geforce_rtx_...
- errantspark 6y agoI use an eGPU, so I have a 4x instead of a 16x PCIe 3.0 link with a 1080Ti and even that doesn't make much difference, some games blit/do more system <-> gpu transfers than others (APEX, I'm lookin at you) and there's a noticeable perf impact for the most part it's negligible. I wouldn't worry at all about PCIe 3.0 vs 4.0.
- jasomill 6y agoSame. In gaming and graphics benchmarks on my 1070Ti over Thunderbolt 3 (Hades Canyon Intel NUC), I've seen no more than a 10%-20% drop in frame rate vs. what I'd expect from equivalent benchmark results reported online, so I'd expect no material difference between PCIe 3.0 x16 and PCIe 4.0 x16 for typical gaming applications, and, from benchmark numbers I've seen, only a modest performance drop from PCIe 4.0 x16 to PCIe 3.0 x8. This assumes, of course, that the PCIe lanes in question actually exist† and are dedicated to the card, and are not shared with another in-use device via a switch or similar chipset shenanigans. Case in point: the only time I ever had performance problems with my eGPU setup was when attempting to do 4K HDMI output through a Blackmagic Decklink card while simultaneously using the 1070Ti for compute over the same (shared) Thunderbolt bus in DaVinci Resolve. As far as I know, this would not typically be a problem with a single-GPU, non-Thunderbolt-connected desktop system, as desktop motherboards typically have at least one full-bandwidth x16 slot, which you'd almost always use for the GPU. † Physical x16 slots can have fewer than sixteen connected PCIe lanes. For example, while my HP Z820 has four "x16" slots, only three have full bandwidth; the fourth slot supports x16 cards, but only at the speed of an x8 slot, because only eight of the slot's sixteen PCIe lanes are actually connected.
- jacquesm 6y ago> I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers That's something I've never had a problem with when it comes to NV. And I've been using their cards for years for combined compute/display purposes.
- marmaduke 6y ago> 24 GB of memory is a game changer a little confused here, I see Dell offering machines with cards up to 48 GB, so 24 GB seems quite nice, but not game changing.
- jjcm 6y agoThe difference is the Quadro RTX 8000 is $5500 (vs the 3090’s $1500 price), and the Quadro has less than half of the CUDA cores that the 3090 does. You can buy two of the 3090’s for almost half the price of the Quadro and have 4x the processing power. EDIT: looks like I'm not fully correct here - nvidia changed how they measure cores: https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ikok1b/explaining_amperes_cuda_core_count/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/ikok1b/explaining... Still great for the price, but not double the power necessarily.
- gowld 6y agoI thought quadro sacrifices speed to get accuracy, which matters for modelling/rendering but not ML (and games)
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoIsn’t this just Single vs. Double vs. Quad-precision in IEEE-754 numbers - or is it something else? Do they round-off 32-bit floats at 24-bits or something?
- whywhywhywhy 6y agoMatters for CAD but rendering these days most are just piling machines full of gaming GPUs and rendering on CUDA.
- marmaduke 6y agomy reading of the article was that this model is memory bound, not compute bound
- wtallis 6y ago> One thing I'm curious about is the RTX IO feature. The slide said it supports DirectStorage for Windows, but is there an equivalent to this for Linux? I'm hoping someone with a little more insight or an Nvidia employee may have some more information. I haven't been able to find any real technical details about what DirectStorage really is, but my expectations are that it will consist of: 1. An asynchronous IO API allowing for low-overhead submission of IO requests from the application to the kernel, including batch submissions and reaping of completion events. 2. Some provision for transparent compression offload, either to the GPU or to a CPU-based fallback 3. Optional support for peer-to-peer DMA transfers of data from SSD to the GPU's VRAM Linux is already the gold standard for (1) with the relatively recent io_uring API, and has support for (3) to some extent (P2P DMA has been a fairly obscure feature until recently). There are still some pretty big unanswered questions about DirectStorage. How well will it reduce the IO overhead that currently allows antivirus and other programs to hook into the IO stack? Will it be compatible with non-Microsoft NVMe drivers, including Intel's RST drivers that are commonly used for their software RAID? Microsoft doesn't seem to want to make that kind of information public this year.
- modeless 6y agoThere's a slightly more detailed blog post here: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-is-coming-to-pc/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-is-comi...
- wtallis 6y agoYeah, I already read that. If you pay attention, you'll notice it talks a lot about the problem they're trying to solve, and very little about how exactly they're going about solving it. Partly because it's apparently still in flux, which calls into question what's going on with the storage API for the Xbox, which really should have been nailed down by now.
- jiggawatts 6y agoIt's the same tech used by the next-gen consoles (e.g.: PS5). Essentially, it's about streaming game textures directly into the GPU memory. The idea is that this is highly asynchronous and parallel from the perspective of the CPU, so trying to do this through the "main game loop" would be an absolute nightmare to code at the scale we're talking about here. Think 50K IOPS sustained at 8GB/s with pretty hard real time guarantees.
- tracker1 6y agoHaving gone through some hellish months on a 5700xt, AMD isn't any better than Nvidia on the Linux front, though since late January it was relatively stable (on beta linux kernel, which meant I couldn't use KVM/Virtualbox reasonably). Personally, looking at the RTX 3070, for 1440p, but I'm not doing anything other than some casual gaming.
- pdimitar 6y agoWhat problems did you have with the 5700XT? Been pondering buying one for a mixed gaming/work Linux station.
- distances 6y agoJust so you know, AMD is also releasing a GPU update this fall. Could be that drivers take a moment to stabilize again, but at least the old models should drop in price if you're not looking to be on bleeding edge.
- tracker1 6y agoYeah, I'm hoping they're more stable out of the gate... from October through early January the navi cards were problematic to say the least. Kind of works in kernel, update breaks it, switch distros to supported distro, load official driver package, update breaks it... switch to beta/bleeding kernel, graphics work, but kvm/virtualbox completely borked. I may do a clean install with PopOS 20.10 when it drops, which should be well supported in kernel and get virtualization support back in the box.
- tracker1 6y agoI'd give it a few weeks, should be able to get one used around $200 after the rtx 3000 availability shakes out. A GTX 1080 is around the same performance and pricing will be a little lower even. Since January it's been pretty stable, I've been on the beta kernel releases though.. when say 20.10 ubuntu and derivatives drop, should be using a kernel that's stable for the 5700xt. I've been working more on my Windows drive, using WSL2 + Docker Desktop (wsl2 option) for the past few months though, which I've been surprisingly happy with.
- sbierwagen 6y agoI wonder how many expensive gaming cards Nvidia has sold to programmers saying "Well, I can't really justify spending this much to play video games, but what if I want to train a DNN at home?"
- skocznymroczny 6y agoWhich monitor is it? I am not aware of any high-refresh IPS screens, most seem to be TN or VA.
- ZeroCool2u 6y agoThey're all very new. The Eve Spectrum[1] is the one I ordered. [1]https://evedevices.com/pages/full-specs https://evedevices.com/pages/full-specs
- throwaway9d0291 6y ago> My day job is primarily ML as well, so I might just go for the 3090. 24 GB of memory is a game changer for what I can do locally. I really just wish Nvidia would get its shit together with Linux drivers. You might be better off waiting for Quadro. GeForce, from NVIDIA's perspective, is the consumer line. The drivers are focused on getting the best possible performance for gamers (on Windows you'll see a big deal made of "Game-ready" drivers) and the hardware is intended for desktop usage, i.e. a couple of hours of gaming. GeForce hardware isn't intended for long-running jobs like ML and the drivers aren't stability-focused. That's not to say that you can't train ML models on a GeForce card or that the GeForce drivers will lead to constant crashing or anything, just that NVIDIA isn't focused on this for GeForce. Quadro and Tesla on the other hand are all about reliability. They're intended for use in servers and workstations where they're subject to all-day (Quadro) or 24/7 (Tesla) load. The drivers are focused on making sure things don't break. Though I think the 3090 is intended to be the successor to the previous-generation Titan, so it could be that NVIDIA has different ideas about what goes where these days.
- fock 6y agoahem yes. It seems like your overlord won't pay you for this into the future.
- dannyw 6y agoThere are indeed driver differences but I have been running long-lived, sometimes month-lived ML workloads on GTX and RTX cards for years. I've never had any stability issues. You are more or less buying into their marketing, and paying 100-250% price premiums for a "Quadro" or "Tesla".
- formerly_proven 6y ago> the hardware is intended for desktop usage, i.e. a couple of hours of gaming. Tons of people have been flooring previous generation of cards 24/7 for months with compute workloads, and not nearly all of them were using watercooling. Those cards are still fine. ECC memory might be an argument though, for CAD/CAE type of work. Doubt ML cares about a few bitflips.
- 6y ago
- ryan-allen 6y agoI wish they'd get their drivers sorted out too! I'm typing on a computer with a 2080 ti, but instead I'm using the igpu for kde wayland (which works perfectly fine).