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Remember to vote yes on Prop 15 this year to repeal Prop 13 for commercial properties! It's not perfect but it's better than nothing. https://en.wikipedia.org/

by klipt 6y ago

Remember to vote yes on Prop 15 this year to repeal Prop 13 for commercial properties! It's not perfect but it's better than nothing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_15

ghouse 6y ago
I'll be voting against it. Prop 15 will make it more difficult to fix Prop 13.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Prop 15 will make it more difficult to fix Prop 13 This "if I don't get what I want, nobody does" political strategy reminds me of the Author's Guild's battle with Google over Book Search [1]. The principle problem of politics is priority. When roadblocks to incrementalism and compromise are thrown up, it's more likely for the problem to be branded as unsolvable for a generation than it is for everyone to come back together to work out a grand solution. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,....
- klipt 6y ago
  Are you sure? Currently commercial owners have incentive to lobby to keep Prop 13, but if 15 passes they'd no longer have skin in the game, which should reduce Prop 13's defence warchest.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I agree, Prop. 15 seems specifically designed to dissipate the momentum behind Prop. 13 reform. I also strenuously disagree with the idea of statically allocating tax revenues to enumerated purposes in constitutional amendments that the legislature can't change.
- jedberg 6y ago
  I'm curious as to why you think that? I'm a big supporter of Prop 15, and would like to see 13 repealed (despite the many thousands of dollars a year it saves me). How will 15 hurt a further repeal of 13?
  - potiuper 6y ago
    Politicians have to be seen doing "something". Lose the battle over progressive property tax and win the war for justifying Euclidean zoning segregation - LA is the definition of urban sprawl. Local tax districts are still subject to gerrymandering; the local strip mall dollars will go to the "right" neighborhood(s), especially as they are usually located at or made into barriers between neighborhoods with new and old development along major traffic arteries. Businesses do not vote except with their feet and lobbying dollars. Majority of property tax revenue is residential and unaffected: sprawl + business property tax abatements. Passage of 15 puts a new barrier to removal in favor of 13 given local setups that will be based around 15 - such as the "out" small businesses vs "in" big box. Industrial properties could have been thrown in to further the case; not like CA will make electric cars for long - Tesla has already hopped over to NV with China not far behind.
    - jedberg 6y ago
      I'm still missing a connection. I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand how prop 15 passing leads to the outcomes you describe.
donor20 6y ago
I'll be voting for this! This was one of the worst elements of prop 13. Lot's of game playing with LLC's as well to avoid reporting ownership changes that this addresses
fortran77 6y ago
This is pure evil. You want to see every small buisness go under? Remember, big companies like Apple make special deals for their property tax rates. Only the little guys (like me, with our 15000 ft/sq building in Sunnyvale) will be screwed. When it comes time to fire people to make up for the property tax increase, I'll let you pick which ones. BTW: I am FOR the Duplex Bill. I'm FOR building more, denser housing.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Calling changes to tax code “evil” is hyperbolic and unhelpful.
  - fortran77 6y ago
    Unfair, unjust tax codes can certainly be evil. It's no longer to raise money -- it's to punish people. Why not just raise _everyone's_ taxes 1 point? That wouldn't be evil.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      How do you know that it’s to punish people? That seems like a pretty wild accusation to make without any evidence.
ashtonkem 6y ago
My worry is that the outcome of this will be local cities only zoning for new commercial developments in order to plug budgetary shortfalls.

by klipt 6y ago

ghouse 6y ago

I'll be voting against it. Prop 15 will make it more difficult to fix Prop 13.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Prop 15 will make it more difficult to fix Prop 13 This "if I don't get what I want, nobody does" political strategy reminds me of the Author's Guild's battle with Google over Book Search [1]. The principle problem of politics is priority. When roadblocks to incrementalism and compromise are thrown up, it's more likely for the problem to be branded as unsolvable for a generation than it is for everyone to come back together to work out a grand solution. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,....
klipt 6y ago
Are you sure? Currently commercial owners have incentive to lobby to keep Prop 13, but if 15 passes they'd no longer have skin in the game, which should reduce Prop 13's defence warchest.
jeffbee 6y ago
I agree, Prop. 15 seems specifically designed to dissipate the momentum behind Prop. 13 reform. I also strenuously disagree with the idea of statically allocating tax revenues to enumerated purposes in constitutional amendments that the legislature can't change.
jedberg 6y ago
I'm curious as to why you think that? I'm a big supporter of Prop 15, and would like to see 13 repealed (despite the many thousands of dollars a year it saves me). How will 15 hurt a further repeal of 13?
- potiuper 6y ago
  Politicians have to be seen doing "something". Lose the battle over progressive property tax and win the war for justifying Euclidean zoning segregation - LA is the definition of urban sprawl. Local tax districts are still subject to gerrymandering; the local strip mall dollars will go to the "right" neighborhood(s), especially as they are usually located at or made into barriers between neighborhoods with new and old development along major traffic arteries. Businesses do not vote except with their feet and lobbying dollars. Majority of property tax revenue is residential and unaffected: sprawl + business property tax abatements. Passage of 15 puts a new barrier to removal in favor of 13 given local setups that will be based around 15 - such as the "out" small businesses vs "in" big box. Industrial properties could have been thrown in to further the case; not like CA will make electric cars for long - Tesla has already hopped over to NV with China not far behind.
  - jedberg 6y ago
    I'm still missing a connection. I hear what you're saying, but I don't understand how prop 15 passing leads to the outcomes you describe.

donor20 6y ago

I'll be voting for this! This was one of the worst elements of prop 13. Lot's of game playing with LLC's as well to avoid reporting ownership changes that this addresses

fortran77 6y ago

This is pure evil. You want to see every small buisness go under? Remember, big companies like Apple make special deals for their property tax rates. Only the little guys (like me, with our 15000 ft/sq building in Sunnyvale) will be screwed. When it comes time to fire people to make up for the property tax increase, I'll let you pick which ones. BTW: I am FOR the Duplex Bill. I'm FOR building more, denser housing.

ashtonkem 6y ago
Calling changes to tax code “evil” is hyperbolic and unhelpful.
- fortran77 6y ago
  Unfair, unjust tax codes can certainly be evil. It's no longer to raise money -- it's to punish people. Why not just raise _everyone's_ taxes 1 point? That wouldn't be evil.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    How do you know that it’s to punish people? That seems like a pretty wild accusation to make without any evidence.

ashtonkem 6y ago

My worry is that the outcome of this will be local cities only zoning for new commercial developments in order to plug budgetary shortfalls.