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Prop 13 is the strongest argument against the entire proposition system. If you give voters direct democracy power, they love to vote in their own self-interes

Prop 13 is the strongest argument against the entire proposition system. If you give voters direct democracy power, they love to vote in their own self-interest, future problems be damned. I guess it's a system that perfectly matches the "Generation Me" voters that have driven it for decades.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
It works both ways though. When it is a gun safety issue on the ballot (see Washington state ballot measures over the past years) the people are letting the government know that they want fewer guns in society. I suppose it is special interest groups pressuring politicians that prevent them from enacting certain bills popular with the public. Ballot measures seem to be a check on that.
notJim 6y ago
I think the real problem with those systems is that it's relatively easy for a well-funded group or person to influence the outcome or outright abuse the system to their own ends. Pay canvassers ridiculous rates per signature to get it on the ballot, then flood the airwaves with ads supporting your preferred position. If your opponents aren't as well-funded, the deck is stacked against them.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  The petitioners can also just wage wars of attrition. There's no cooling-off period, so they can just go to the ballot again and again until their junk finally passes, and they can even add one-way moats to their amendments such that they can pass with bare majorities but require supermajorities to amend.
jfb 6y ago
I agree that the proposition system, whatever purpose it may have served to rein in the railroads BITD, is now a horrible destructive anachronism; but I don't think you need to make a moral argument against Prop 13; a purely functional one works just as well. Proposition 13 has crippled all polities below the state level -- the reason that California has budgets determined almost exclusively by constitutional amendment is that local governments have no funding authority to speak of. So what could be localized solutions to problems become statewide, and ill-fitting, and you end up with basically no discretionary financial ability at the state level.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

It works both ways though. When it is a gun safety issue on the ballot (see Washington state ballot measures over the past years) the people are letting the government know that they want fewer guns in society. I suppose it is special interest groups pressuring politicians that prevent them from enacting certain bills popular with the public. Ballot measures seem to be a check on that.

notJim 6y ago

I think the real problem with those systems is that it's relatively easy for a well-funded group or person to influence the outcome or outright abuse the system to their own ends. Pay canvassers ridiculous rates per signature to get it on the ballot, then flood the airwaves with ads supporting your preferred position. If your opponents aren't as well-funded, the deck is stacked against them.

jeffbee 6y ago
The petitioners can also just wage wars of attrition. There's no cooling-off period, so they can just go to the ballot again and again until their junk finally passes, and they can even add one-way moats to their amendments such that they can pass with bare majorities but require supermajorities to amend.

jfb 6y ago

I agree that the proposition system, whatever purpose it may have served to rein in the railroads BITD, is now a horrible destructive anachronism; but I don't think you need to make a moral argument against Prop 13; a purely functional one works just as well. Proposition 13 has crippled all polities below the state level -- the reason that California has budgets determined almost exclusively by constitutional amendment is that local governments have no funding authority to speak of. So what could be localized solutions to problems become statewide, and ill-fitting, and you end up with basically no discretionary financial ability at the state level.