3 ms·

For undergrad I used Army money and was poor enough for Pell grants after that ran out. I got out with $12K in loans. Much later in law school I was shocked ho

For undergrad I used Army money and was poor enough for Pell grants after that ran out. I got out with $12K in loans. Much later in law school I was shocked how my first financial aid award letter (I can't remember if it was for one semester or one year) offered $80,000 in loans even though I had an $18000 tuition grant/waiver. I met younger students who had close to $200,000 debt before starting law school. It is too easy to take the loans, it is no wonder that so many kids or their families get buried in debt. I got out of LS with $27K or so in debt from interest deferred federal loans that charged around 2% interest. Now, 14 years later, that same Tier 2/3 school charges more than double what I paid. I would not have gone at that price.

spaetzleesser 6y ago
At least lawyers and doctors are smart enough to keep their rates high enough so they can repay their loans. A while ago I was looking for a lawyer and it was surprising that there were no freelance lawyers that changed maybe 80 dollars per hour. They all wanted 250 and more.
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  Maybe true for MDs. But many lawyers, especially solo firms struggle to get by. I did some low-fee legal for awhile part-time because I was still programming after I got my JD. I think I charged $250/hr or flat fees but I did a lot of free/contingency cases too. As a solo you rarely bill 8-hours a day. Between running around to meet clients or driving to different courts in the area some days you are lucky to bill a few hours. One guy got angry at me because I wanted $250 (or something like that) "just to read" his DIY complaint before he filed it. "Just to make sure everything looked okay..." He didn't realize that he would be establishing an attorney client relationship with me that would obligate me to give competent legal advice that put my license on the line. That is way beyond just reading his complaint. The same goes for reviewing contracts, non-competes, etc. I eventually read the complaint he had prepared since he sent it to me earlier, boy I dodged a bullet on that one. It would have taken a ton of work to get it even close to ready for filing. I did some low-fee family law stuff too -- one client thought I was taking the side of her ex, because I didn't raise her legally irrelevant complaints in court. I still got her more money than any other family lawyer would have done for the small fee she paid. I think I charged her a flat $1100. In a low stakes employment discrimination case, my client had been rejected by multiple attorneys before she ran into dumb me. I took the case and got the client a six figure settlement. Client promptly took me to arbitration because she thought my share to was too high even though it was well below industry standard. Eventually I got tired of this crap and sold out and went corporate.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Basic financial literacy is a major issue. Perhaps, by design. Seeing 200,000 in debt should raise alarm bells for anyone not from wealth.

spaetzleesser 6y ago

At least lawyers and doctors are smart enough to keep their rates high enough so they can repay their loans. A while ago I was looking for a lawyer and it was surprising that there were no freelance lawyers that changed maybe 80 dollars per hour. They all wanted 250 and more.

pnw_hazor 6y ago
Maybe true for MDs. But many lawyers, especially solo firms struggle to get by. I did some low-fee legal for awhile part-time because I was still programming after I got my JD. I think I charged $250/hr or flat fees but I did a lot of free/contingency cases too. As a solo you rarely bill 8-hours a day. Between running around to meet clients or driving to different courts in the area some days you are lucky to bill a few hours. One guy got angry at me because I wanted $250 (or something like that) "just to read" his DIY complaint before he filed it. "Just to make sure everything looked okay..." He didn't realize that he would be establishing an attorney client relationship with me that would obligate me to give competent legal advice that put my license on the line. That is way beyond just reading his complaint. The same goes for reviewing contracts, non-competes, etc. I eventually read the complaint he had prepared since he sent it to me earlier, boy I dodged a bullet on that one. It would have taken a ton of work to get it even close to ready for filing. I did some low-fee family law stuff too -- one client thought I was taking the side of her ex, because I didn't raise her legally irrelevant complaints in court. I still got her more money than any other family lawyer would have done for the small fee she paid. I think I charged her a flat $1100. In a low stakes employment discrimination case, my client had been rejected by multiple attorneys before she ran into dumb me. I took the case and got the client a six figure settlement. Client promptly took me to arbitration because she thought my share to was too high even though it was well below industry standard. Eventually I got tired of this crap and sold out and went corporate.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago

Basic financial literacy is a major issue. Perhaps, by design. Seeing 200,000 in debt should raise alarm bells for anyone not from wealth.