6 ms·

As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return). My guess is the performance improvements are the biggest for raytracing, which I personal

As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return). My guess is the performance improvements are the biggest for raytracing, which I personally don't care for. And let's not forget the huge power draw, requiring a new power connector and a 3 slot cooler. 8N manufacturing process is presumably Samsung, which will probably be beat by TSMC 7nm. I'm holding out for RDNA2.

adamch 6y ago
I think the new connector is only on the 3090.
- smileybarry 6y ago
  The product page linked elsewhere in the thread[1] has photos of the 3070 with the 12-pin connector and mentions that all Founder Edition cards include an adapter: > To that end, our engineers designed a much smaller PCB, shrank the NVLink and power connectors, and still managed to pack in 18-phases for improved power delivery. Don’t worry, we included an adapter that allows Founders Edition cards to work with users’ existing power supplies. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30...
fluffything 6y ago
> As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return). Why would you keep a 1200$ RTX 2080 Ti or a 2500$ Titan when you can get at least the same perf for 50-75% of the price with the new products, and much better RTX perf ? This assumes that with RTX off the new gen won't be slower than the old one, but I think that's a fair assumption, and if it isn't, you can always return the 30xx card in 2 weeks, and buy an used 2080 Ti or Titan on ebay for pennies, once the market overflows from people upgrading for the 30xx series. People were still asking for 900$ for a used 2080 Ti on ebay this morning, and the 3080 700$ price just destroys that offer. Many owners are going to try and dump these cards for as much as they can get in the next two weeks. I wouldn't buy a used 2080 Ti for more than 250$ today. In one month, these cards are going to sell used for 100-200$. If AMD can only match the 2080 Ti perf, they are going to have a very hard time pricing against the used 2080 Ti market. > And let's not forget the huge power draw, requiring a new power connector and a 3 slot cooler. That's only for the 3090 IIUC. All other cards were announced as being actually much smaller than the 20xx series ones.
- JackMcMack 6y ago
  True, the new generation offers better price/performance vs the previous generation. Do note that the 3080 is still 2 weeks away (17 sept), 3090 24 sept, 3070 in October. I would consider getting a non-founders edition though, in the past other brands have had better/more silent cooling for pretty much identical pricing. Edit: While the 3090 (350W) is the only one requiring a 3 slot cooler, all 3 use the new 12 pin power connector. The 3080 founder edition power draw is still 320W, vs 220W for the 2080.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    > True, the new generation offers better price/performance vs the previous generation. That's not that difficult considering the RTX cards had terrible price/perf.
  - binaryblitz 6y ago
    The 12 pin connector has an adapter for two 8pin cables. This is a non issue unless the connector just bothers you for some weird reason.
- mu_killnine 6y ago
  Pretty bold claim that 2080TIs are going to sell for $250 in a month, lol. Certainly the market for them will take a beating compared to new prices now. But I can't imagine it collapsing like that purely based on the supply. How many people are really going to drop their 2080 just because a new thing is out there? I'd love to be wrong, as an original 2070 owner ;)
  - fluffything 6y ago
    > How many people are really going to drop their 2080 just because a new thing is out there? Pretty much everyone who paid for a 2080 Ti on launch and always need to have the latests bestest thing.
- ses1984 6y ago
  >Why would you keep a 1200$ RTX 2080 Ti or a 2500$ Titan when you can get at least the same perf for 50-75% of the price with the new products, and much better RTX perf Well for one, keeping a card you already bought is free, buying a new one costs money. Why are you all getting so excited about the prices given in a paper launch? Wait until you can actually buy one at that price, which I'm guessing isn't going to be until well into 2021.
godelski 6y ago
> 8N manufacturing process is presumably Samsung They explicitly noted that it was Samsung.
- JackMcMack 6y ago
  It's not mentioned in this announcement, was it confirmed somewhere in the past by Nvidia?
  - fluffything 6y ago
    It was mentioned in the video.
    - JackMcMack 6y ago
      Indeed it is. For those wondering, this (official) link has much more info (and the video), that the currently linked blog post. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30...
alkonaut 6y ago
Yeah there is no way they sell a card that does 200% the fps of a 2080ti in "normal" (non raytracing, ultra quality) averaged over multiple titles. If a 2080ti does 100fps without raytracing and 30fps with, this might do 110fps without raytracing and 60fps with, for they'll a "100%" increase but most would consider that 10%.
thdrdt 6y ago
I was wondering if all benchmarks use the OptiX features or only the CUDA features. In software like Blender this makes a huge difference. OptiX can be twice as fast as CUDA. So of benchmarks don't use the OptiX capabilities then they will miss a lot of available speed.
outworlder 6y ago
> My guess is the performance improvements are the biggest for raytracing, which I personally don't care for. I still don't understand the raytracing craze when it comes to games. Years ago when I wrote my first raytracer I might have got excited about it. But we have advanced so much with rasterization that I don't really understand why this is something we need. Raytracing complexity is tricky and it is likely to prove challenging to do in a game with consistent frame rates. Soft shadows are expensive even for hardware. I would be more excited about some other global illumination improvements, like photon mapping.
- gknoy 6y ago
  Many newer games are designed to show off raytracing effects. Cyberpunk 2077 has lots of neon lights, shiny things, rain puddles, etc for light to bounce around, and raytracing makes it look a lot nicer than when the shadows are approximated in traditional ways. Minecraft ... ye gods. The videos I've seen look amazing. The other nice thing these cards have is the DLSS 2.0 tech, which is supposed to let it render at higher resolutions by _making things up_ (?) based on ... something buzzword-laden. The effect, though, is that you get similar or better quality at much higher framerates, because lossy techniques are still nice to look at. "Need" is a strong word, but I'm sure someone will make a game where the shadows _matter_ for telling the story, or solving puzzles, or even just making the game world look more realistic and believable.
  - fluffything 6y ago
    > "Need" is a strong word, but I'm sure someone will make a game where the shadows _matter_ for telling the story, or solving puzzles, or even just making the game world look more realistic and believable. Or selling GFX cards..
  - manigandham 6y ago
    DLSS renders the game at a lower resolution then upscales it to a higher resolution using AI to modify the final image. The models are trained from super-resolution renders and used to be trained per-game but are now generalized. They're designed to upscale textures, denoise, fix aliasing and overall increase quality based on that high-end source data so you get the same output without having to actually run at those settings.
proverbialbunny 6y ago
I don't blame you. NVidia's numbers look loaded. But surprisingly it really is a LARGE boost in FPS for games. - Ray tracing only is not 200% but 195% in real world tests. - In modern games like Tomb Raider the fps increase is between 165 and 180%, averaging 175%. This is comparing the 2080 to 3080 playing real world games.
Wubdidu 6y ago
Hardware Unboxed tested an RTX 3080 and it seems like the performance improvements are not just in ray tracing: https://youtu.be/cWD01yUQdVA https://youtu.be/cWD01yUQdVA It looks pretty impressive. Regarding the new power connector: All the partner cards showcased by Gamers Nexus have the regular two or three 8-pin connectors and the FE cards seem to include an adapter. Nvidia states that a 750W power supply is required, so depending on the CPU even a 650W should be fine.
- sdwvit 6y ago
  That’s global foundry not hardware unboxed

adamch 6y ago

I think the new connector is only on the 3090.

smileybarry 6y ago
The product page linked elsewhere in the thread[1] has photos of the 3070 with the 12-pin connector and mentions that all Founder Edition cards include an adapter: > To that end, our engineers designed a much smaller PCB, shrank the NVLink and power connectors, and still managed to pack in 18-phases for improved power delivery. Don’t worry, we included an adapter that allows Founders Edition cards to work with users’ existing power supplies. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30...

fluffything 6y ago

> As always, wait for the benchmarks before deciding to buy (or return). Why would you keep a 1200$ RTX 2080 Ti or a 2500$ Titan when you can get at least the same perf for 50-75% of the price with the new products, and much better RTX perf ? This assumes that with RTX off the new gen won't be slower than the old one, but I think that's a fair assumption, and if it isn't, you can always return the 30xx card in 2 weeks, and buy an used 2080 Ti or Titan on ebay for pennies, once the market overflows from people upgrading for the 30xx series. People were still asking for 900$ for a used 2080 Ti on ebay this morning, and the 3080 700$ price just destroys that offer. Many owners are going to try and dump these cards for as much as they can get in the next two weeks. I wouldn't buy a used 2080 Ti for more than 250$ today. In one month, these cards are going to sell used for 100-200$. If AMD can only match the 2080 Ti perf, they are going to have a very hard time pricing against the used 2080 Ti market. > And let's not forget the huge power draw, requiring a new power connector and a 3 slot cooler. That's only for the 3090 IIUC. All other cards were announced as being actually much smaller than the 20xx series ones.

JackMcMack 6y ago
True, the new generation offers better price/performance vs the previous generation. Do note that the 3080 is still 2 weeks away (17 sept), 3090 24 sept, 3070 in October. I would consider getting a non-founders edition though, in the past other brands have had better/more silent cooling for pretty much identical pricing. Edit: While the 3090 (350W) is the only one requiring a 3 slot cooler, all 3 use the new 12 pin power connector. The 3080 founder edition power draw is still 320W, vs 220W for the 2080.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  > True, the new generation offers better price/performance vs the previous generation. That's not that difficult considering the RTX cards had terrible price/perf.
- binaryblitz 6y ago
  The 12 pin connector has an adapter for two 8pin cables. This is a non issue unless the connector just bothers you for some weird reason.
mu_killnine 6y ago
Pretty bold claim that 2080TIs are going to sell for $250 in a month, lol. Certainly the market for them will take a beating compared to new prices now. But I can't imagine it collapsing like that purely based on the supply. How many people are really going to drop their 2080 just because a new thing is out there? I'd love to be wrong, as an original 2070 owner ;)
- fluffything 6y ago
  > How many people are really going to drop their 2080 just because a new thing is out there? Pretty much everyone who paid for a 2080 Ti on launch and always need to have the latests bestest thing.
ses1984 6y ago
>Why would you keep a 1200$ RTX 2080 Ti or a 2500$ Titan when you can get at least the same perf for 50-75% of the price with the new products, and much better RTX perf Well for one, keeping a card you already bought is free, buying a new one costs money. Why are you all getting so excited about the prices given in a paper launch? Wait until you can actually buy one at that price, which I'm guessing isn't going to be until well into 2021.

godelski 6y ago

> 8N manufacturing process is presumably Samsung They explicitly noted that it was Samsung.

JackMcMack 6y ago
It's not mentioned in this announcement, was it confirmed somewhere in the past by Nvidia?
- fluffything 6y ago
  It was mentioned in the video.
  - JackMcMack 6y ago
    Indeed it is. For those wondering, this (official) link has much more info (and the video), that the currently linked blog post. [1] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30...

alkonaut 6y ago

Yeah there is no way they sell a card that does 200% the fps of a 2080ti in "normal" (non raytracing, ultra quality) averaged over multiple titles. If a 2080ti does 100fps without raytracing and 30fps with, this might do 110fps without raytracing and 60fps with, for they'll a "100%" increase but most would consider that 10%.

thdrdt 6y ago

I was wondering if all benchmarks use the OptiX features or only the CUDA features. In software like Blender this makes a huge difference. OptiX can be twice as fast as CUDA. So of benchmarks don't use the OptiX capabilities then they will miss a lot of available speed.

outworlder 6y ago

> My guess is the performance improvements are the biggest for raytracing, which I personally don't care for. I still don't understand the raytracing craze when it comes to games. Years ago when I wrote my first raytracer I might have got excited about it. But we have advanced so much with rasterization that I don't really understand why this is something we need. Raytracing complexity is tricky and it is likely to prove challenging to do in a game with consistent frame rates. Soft shadows are expensive even for hardware. I would be more excited about some other global illumination improvements, like photon mapping.

gknoy 6y ago
Many newer games are designed to show off raytracing effects. Cyberpunk 2077 has lots of neon lights, shiny things, rain puddles, etc for light to bounce around, and raytracing makes it look a lot nicer than when the shadows are approximated in traditional ways. Minecraft ... ye gods. The videos I've seen look amazing. The other nice thing these cards have is the DLSS 2.0 tech, which is supposed to let it render at higher resolutions by _making things up_ (?) based on ... something buzzword-laden. The effect, though, is that you get similar or better quality at much higher framerates, because lossy techniques are still nice to look at. "Need" is a strong word, but I'm sure someone will make a game where the shadows _matter_ for telling the story, or solving puzzles, or even just making the game world look more realistic and believable.
- fluffything 6y ago
  > "Need" is a strong word, but I'm sure someone will make a game where the shadows _matter_ for telling the story, or solving puzzles, or even just making the game world look more realistic and believable. Or selling GFX cards..
- manigandham 6y ago
  DLSS renders the game at a lower resolution then upscales it to a higher resolution using AI to modify the final image. The models are trained from super-resolution renders and used to be trained per-game but are now generalized. They're designed to upscale textures, denoise, fix aliasing and overall increase quality based on that high-end source data so you get the same output without having to actually run at those settings.

proverbialbunny 6y ago

I don't blame you. NVidia's numbers look loaded. But surprisingly it really is a LARGE boost in FPS for games. - Ray tracing only is not 200% but 195% in real world tests. - In modern games like Tomb Raider the fps increase is between 165 and 180%, averaging 175%. This is comparing the 2080 to 3080 playing real world games.

Wubdidu 6y ago

Hardware Unboxed tested an RTX 3080 and it seems like the performance improvements are not just in ray tracing: https://youtu.be/cWD01yUQdVA https://youtu.be/cWD01yUQdVA It looks pretty impressive. Regarding the new power connector: All the partner cards showcased by Gamers Nexus have the regular two or three 8-pin connectors and the FE cards seem to include an adapter. Nvidia states that a 750W power supply is required, so depending on the CPU even a 650W should be fine.

sdwvit 6y ago
That’s global foundry not hardware unboxed