5 ms·

Were I to base career choices on every one-off negative anecdote about a particular work scenario, I would have gone to live in a monastery years ago. Of cours

Were I to base career choices on every one-off negative anecdote about a particular work scenario, I would have gone to live in a monastery years ago. Of course, I'm probably replying to a Pinkerton employee right now. But, yeah, unions bad.

jariel 6y ago
Except that it's not a single anecdote, and this issue is widespread. Ignoring the realities and complexities of established organized labour is not going to help the cause.
- cool_dude85 6y ago
  It is, very literally, a single anecdote that they guy is responding to.
  - jariel 6y ago
    As I clearly stated: problems with unions are widespread and there are even quite a handful of examples right on this thread. "Racism doesn't exist just because one person used n-word! It's just one anecdote!" ... is not an argument. Anyone with any exposure unions knows they are far from perfect, many of them are quite terrible. This kind of ideological, wilful ignorance kills any goodwill people might otherwise have among the adult population who will invariably have come up against theses issue probably multiple times in their lives through either personal experiences or acquaintances.
    - Qwertious 6y ago
      "As I clearly stated: problems with unions are widespread and there are even quite a handful of examples right on this thread." The plural of anecdote is not data.
sacks2k 6y ago
The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You won't get paid what you are worth and will get held back when you want a raise. In almost all unions that I've encountered, if you want a raise, it's as a collective. They also prevent technological advances and it only makes things more expensive for the consumer (Who do you think is fighting Uber and Lyft in major cities? Taxicab unions that were fleecing customers for decades and didn't need to add any convenience to customeers due to massive monopolies and the medallion system). We also can't forget the police unions, which very system contributes to not firing bad cops..which results in brutality. This is never mentioned in our current discussions on race because the progressives in this country love unions and don't want anything to prevent their mass acceptance. Unions are great for low-performing workers that get guaranteed raises and can't be fired for complete and utter incompetence.
- rumanator 6y ago
  > The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You should really let go of that folclore because it makes absolutely no sense at all and has absolutely zero connection to the real world. First of all, it's widely known that Amazon already has a rigid employee structure that pays according to the internal pay scale. This alone shuts dispels the "omg unions keep top performers down", because internally your only shot at a pay increase is to run through their promotion obstacle course. Unions are about employee representation and negotiating power. They are the only way to create change such as limiting working hours and demand safe working conditions and cut down on arbitrarily firing people for no reason. Without unions you have zero power. With an underperforming union you have some power. Sounds like even a bad union is progress.
  - notJim 6y ago
    Great point—every company I've worked at, people have complained about lack of transparency about who gets promoted. HR and company leaders always respond "oh we're trying, it's hard, trust us", etc. But with a union workers would have a seat at the table to change the process.
  - mikestew 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

Except that it's not a single anecdote, and this issue is widespread. Ignoring the realities and complexities of established organized labour is not going to help the cause.

cool_dude85 6y ago
It is, very literally, a single anecdote that they guy is responding to.
- jariel 6y ago
  As I clearly stated: problems with unions are widespread and there are even quite a handful of examples right on this thread. "Racism doesn't exist just because one person used n-word! It's just one anecdote!" ... is not an argument. Anyone with any exposure unions knows they are far from perfect, many of them are quite terrible. This kind of ideological, wilful ignorance kills any goodwill people might otherwise have among the adult population who will invariably have come up against theses issue probably multiple times in their lives through either personal experiences or acquaintances.
  - Qwertious 6y ago
    "As I clearly stated: problems with unions are widespread and there are even quite a handful of examples right on this thread." The plural of anecdote is not data.

sacks2k 6y ago

The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You won't get paid what you are worth and will get held back when you want a raise. In almost all unions that I've encountered, if you want a raise, it's as a collective. They also prevent technological advances and it only makes things more expensive for the consumer (Who do you think is fighting Uber and Lyft in major cities? Taxicab unions that were fleecing customers for decades and didn't need to add any convenience to customeers due to massive monopolies and the medallion system). We also can't forget the police unions, which very system contributes to not firing bad cops..which results in brutality. This is never mentioned in our current discussions on race because the progressives in this country love unions and don't want anything to prevent their mass acceptance. Unions are great for low-performing workers that get guaranteed raises and can't be fired for complete and utter incompetence.

rumanator 6y ago
> The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You should really let go of that folclore because it makes absolutely no sense at all and has absolutely zero connection to the real world. First of all, it's widely known that Amazon already has a rigid employee structure that pays according to the internal pay scale. This alone shuts dispels the "omg unions keep top performers down", because internally your only shot at a pay increase is to run through their promotion obstacle course. Unions are about employee representation and negotiating power. They are the only way to create change such as limiting working hours and demand safe working conditions and cut down on arbitrarily firing people for no reason. Without unions you have zero power. With an underperforming union you have some power. Sounds like even a bad union is progress.
- notJim 6y ago
  Great point—every company I've worked at, people have complained about lack of transparency about who gets promoted. HR and company leaders always respond "oh we're trying, it's hard, trust us", etc. But with a union workers would have a seat at the table to change the process.
- mikestew 6y ago