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I hear what you're saying. It is incredibly difficult and frustrating to hold a discussion with these types of people. But look at the life of Daryl Davis. Inst

I hear what you're saying. It is incredibly difficult and frustrating to hold a discussion with these types of people. But look at the life of Daryl Davis. Instead of socially isolating "those people", he reached out to them. By some counts, he's helped over 200 people leave the KKK. I believe his methods have been far more effective than socially ostracizing people.

metalliqaz 6y ago
Not possible on facebook.
- bjt2n3904 6y ago
  Not possible, or not easy? Davis' methods require time and work. Granted, his is largely based in meatspace, and I think offline communication is far more effective... but if I didn't think there was some merit to online communication, I wouldn't be trying here. Would you?
  - ideals 6y ago
    I don't think it's not possible, but I don't believe it can be as effective as in person. Online you have the option to click block/mute/ignore and move on. So if you are trying to convince someone, a specific person to change their point of view, it will be much harder to reach them. However thinking about this, I'm surprised there aren't any activist groups who patrol around online and focus on individuals to try and persuade them to change. Broad messages are much less effective than 1:1 conversations. However that also borders on or crosses the line of harassment, depending on view point.
shuntress 6y ago
That type of direct action on an individual level is definitely valuable but it is also challenging and difficult to scale. The issue you originally brought up though concerns mass communication on a different level than those individual actions. For example: Is the top of my facebook news feed an article about Daryl Davis (how his methods are helping misguided people and how I might apply or examine those in my own life to gain a better understanding of and more useful role in society) or is the top of my facebook feed an article about how there are many fine people on both sides and that maybe the KKK has a point and I should hear what they have to say?
- bjt2n3904 6y ago
  I can't speak for what's at the top of your Facebook feed. (I can hardly speak about what's at the top of my own!) This is something beyond my control. It's easy to sit back and call for Facebook to change the channel for me. It's much more difficult to be the channel of change. (Especially, I might add, when algorithms control what people see. Even so, when I directly respond to my friends, that's hard for them to ignore!) The only thing I can be in control of, is what comes out of my own mouth. These are the things I believe in and stand for, that I earnestly think have a far better chance of rectifying things like racism, hatred, and our divided nation. Having Facebook and Twitter do the work for us is alluring. But judging by its results so far, I don't think it's working. As Daryl said, he's a musician. Not a trained psychologist. If he can do it, so can you! Where should we invest our efforts? In what has been proven to reduce hatred, but is difficult -- or what we falsely hope will reduce hatred, and is easy?
  - shuntress 6y ago
    That is an example. Not a literal description of my facebook feed. >It's easy to sit back and call for Facebook to change the channel for me. It's much more difficult to be the channel of change. The point is that these are two separate things that should both happen and should enable each-other in a positive feedback loop. I wouldn't phrase it in as dismissive a way as calling for facebook to "change the channel for me". Rather, I would say that I don't want facebook picking the channel for me in the first place.
intended 6y ago
Daryl Davis does good work and makes the world better. Yet, As much as I have personally argued for following Daryl Davis' footsteps, and have attempted it myself, it simply does not scale in the face of massive action by dedicated firms. The scale and rate at which misinformation wars are playing out, is beyond that at which an individual's actions can stem the tide. At this point, our societies artisanal approach to thought, is giving way to the industrial approach to thought. Which is very dystopian, except phrased nicely since it is the early stages. We are only starting to perceive the frightening outline of the leviathin which has finally stirred.

metalliqaz 6y ago

Not possible on facebook.

bjt2n3904 6y ago
Not possible, or not easy? Davis' methods require time and work. Granted, his is largely based in meatspace, and I think offline communication is far more effective... but if I didn't think there was some merit to online communication, I wouldn't be trying here. Would you?
- ideals 6y ago
  I don't think it's not possible, but I don't believe it can be as effective as in person. Online you have the option to click block/mute/ignore and move on. So if you are trying to convince someone, a specific person to change their point of view, it will be much harder to reach them. However thinking about this, I'm surprised there aren't any activist groups who patrol around online and focus on individuals to try and persuade them to change. Broad messages are much less effective than 1:1 conversations. However that also borders on or crosses the line of harassment, depending on view point.

shuntress 6y ago

That type of direct action on an individual level is definitely valuable but it is also challenging and difficult to scale. The issue you originally brought up though concerns mass communication on a different level than those individual actions. For example: Is the top of my facebook news feed an article about Daryl Davis (how his methods are helping misguided people and how I might apply or examine those in my own life to gain a better understanding of and more useful role in society) or is the top of my facebook feed an article about how there are many fine people on both sides and that maybe the KKK has a point and I should hear what they have to say?

bjt2n3904 6y ago
I can't speak for what's at the top of your Facebook feed. (I can hardly speak about what's at the top of my own!) This is something beyond my control. It's easy to sit back and call for Facebook to change the channel for me. It's much more difficult to be the channel of change. (Especially, I might add, when algorithms control what people see. Even so, when I directly respond to my friends, that's hard for them to ignore!) The only thing I can be in control of, is what comes out of my own mouth. These are the things I believe in and stand for, that I earnestly think have a far better chance of rectifying things like racism, hatred, and our divided nation. Having Facebook and Twitter do the work for us is alluring. But judging by its results so far, I don't think it's working. As Daryl said, he's a musician. Not a trained psychologist. If he can do it, so can you! Where should we invest our efforts? In what has been proven to reduce hatred, but is difficult -- or what we falsely hope will reduce hatred, and is easy?
- shuntress 6y ago
  That is an example. Not a literal description of my facebook feed. >It's easy to sit back and call for Facebook to change the channel for me. It's much more difficult to be the channel of change. The point is that these are two separate things that should both happen and should enable each-other in a positive feedback loop. I wouldn't phrase it in as dismissive a way as calling for facebook to "change the channel for me". Rather, I would say that I don't want facebook picking the channel for me in the first place.

intended 6y ago

Daryl Davis does good work and makes the world better. Yet, As much as I have personally argued for following Daryl Davis' footsteps, and have attempted it myself, it simply does not scale in the face of massive action by dedicated firms. The scale and rate at which misinformation wars are playing out, is beyond that at which an individual's actions can stem the tide. At this point, our societies artisanal approach to thought, is giving way to the industrial approach to thought. Which is very dystopian, except phrased nicely since it is the early stages. We are only starting to perceive the frightening outline of the leviathin which has finally stirred.