4 ms·

A much simpler explanation of the phenomenon is that a lion share of digital electronics made in the union was a direct copypaste down to documentation, and UI

A much simpler explanation of the phenomenon is that a lion share of digital electronics made in the union was a direct copypaste down to documentation, and UI Russian language based domestic computing industry existed, but it has stopped developing in early seventies, and by eighties was behind hopelessly, despite being quite well adapted in civilian use. Funnily, it was the union's military that was the biggest user of hardware, and software derived from Western products, while civilians were left to use obsolete stuff from sixties, and seventies. Even mechanical computers were still around by the time of union's collapse.

flohofwoe 6y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted, as this was a fact. If a country is behind, the best way to catch up is to copy, there's nothing wrong with that (especially since it was illegal for Western companies to sell computer technology into the East, see COCOM [1]). And at least for basic elements like CPUs and other microchips it would have been foolish to create parts that are incompatible with the rest of the world. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Mul...
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  DEC even taped out their opinion: https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html The successor to COMECON streisands the fun stuff: https://www.wassenaar.org/app/uploads/2019/12/WA-DOC-19-PUB-002-Public-Docs-Vol-II-2019-List-of-DU-Goods-and-Technologies-and-Munitions-List-Dec-19.pdf https://www.wassenaar.org/app/uploads/2019/12/WA-DOC-19-PUB-...
pvg 6y ago
Even largely copied machines were typically adapted and 'localized' so I'm not sure this is really a much simpler or accurate explanation.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  I've looked at some old soviet computing papers, and was surprised at how much english they used. I think, just like we all import "programming" keyboards, EN-US rapidly took over from EN-GB after the initial baby steps in computing. http://ershov.iis.nsk.su/files/archive/fold0256/256_125.gif http://ershov.iis.nsk.su/files/archive/fold0256/256_125.gif "optimists learn english — pessimists, chinese"
  - pvg 6y ago
    this went on "realists study re-assembling a Kalashnikov". There was lots of English, obviously, but also a lot of adaptation and modifications. Almost nothing (in wide use) was copied identically so I don't think this is a 'simple explanation' why this machine is the way it is. If I were to guess - this is a fairly late, specialized, small-run device made by a DDR space research institution. Maybe they were more geared up to make 'international' equipment. Maybe that's just the buttons they had on hand. The device was also intended to be used in 'friendly' countries so that might have been a factor. It's also possible this was considered more unobtrusive - on the museum site linked in the article there's a Soviet spy field radio with English markings, for instance, for use overseas.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      So far @textfiles has traced that quote back to '65, give him another hour or so and I fully expect him to come up with a fragment from the dead sea scrolls or some fragment in Linear-A hewn into a rock.
      - pvg 6y ago
        Heh, the last bit - that the Chinese part is a later modification I think I could have told you myself. I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a pre-WW2 variant of some sort. But I doubt it's actually a 'quote' with an origin you can pinpoint any better than many such aphorisms like 'we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us'. Googling the last bit took me to a reddit post in a socialism subreddit that questioned whether people actually said that so there's that sidemusement as well.
grishka 6y ago
In the 80s, if you had a lot of money, you could import an actual PC. Or so I was told. There apparently also were ZX Spectrum clones that no one could afford. Also the Agat computer, a slightly incompatible Apple II clone that used a real imported 6502 because USSR wasn't able to produce its own one.
- flir 6y ago
  I wandered around the Polytechnic Museum in Moscow a couple of decades ago, thinking, at so many of the technology exhibits, "that looks reeeeeeaaally familiar".
  - lb1lf 6y ago
    -As did I, chuckling at the 'built with foreign documentation' label affixed to many of the exhibits, in particular in the consumer electronics exhibition. Chuckle turned to laugh when I looked at the replica H-bomb in the lobby before leaving - first, a label stating 'Replica. Does not contain explosives.' Beneath this label? Another, stating 'built with foreign documentation.'
    - grishka 6y ago
      I probably should visit this museum the next time I come to Moscow for whatever reason.

flohofwoe 6y ago

Not sure why you're downvoted, as this was a fact. If a country is behind, the best way to catch up is to copy, there's nothing wrong with that (especially since it was illegal for Western companies to sell computer technology into the East, see COCOM [1]). And at least for basic elements like CPUs and other microchips it would have been foolish to create parts that are incompatible with the rest of the world. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Mul...

082349872349872 6y ago
DEC even taped out their opinion: https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html The successor to COMECON streisands the fun stuff: https://www.wassenaar.org/app/uploads/2019/12/WA-DOC-19-PUB-002-Public-Docs-Vol-II-2019-List-of-DU-Goods-and-Technologies-and-Munitions-List-Dec-19.pdf https://www.wassenaar.org/app/uploads/2019/12/WA-DOC-19-PUB-...

pvg 6y ago

Even largely copied machines were typically adapted and 'localized' so I'm not sure this is really a much simpler or accurate explanation.

082349872349872 6y ago
I've looked at some old soviet computing papers, and was surprised at how much english they used. I think, just like we all import "programming" keyboards, EN-US rapidly took over from EN-GB after the initial baby steps in computing. http://ershov.iis.nsk.su/files/archive/fold0256/256_125.gif http://ershov.iis.nsk.su/files/archive/fold0256/256_125.gif "optimists learn english — pessimists, chinese"
- pvg 6y ago
  this went on "realists study re-assembling a Kalashnikov". There was lots of English, obviously, but also a lot of adaptation and modifications. Almost nothing (in wide use) was copied identically so I don't think this is a 'simple explanation' why this machine is the way it is. If I were to guess - this is a fairly late, specialized, small-run device made by a DDR space research institution. Maybe they were more geared up to make 'international' equipment. Maybe that's just the buttons they had on hand. The device was also intended to be used in 'friendly' countries so that might have been a factor. It's also possible this was considered more unobtrusive - on the museum site linked in the article there's a Soviet spy field radio with English markings, for instance, for use overseas.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    So far @textfiles has traced that quote back to '65, give him another hour or so and I fully expect him to come up with a fragment from the dead sea scrolls or some fragment in Linear-A hewn into a rock.
    - pvg 6y ago
      Heh, the last bit - that the Chinese part is a later modification I think I could have told you myself. I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a pre-WW2 variant of some sort. But I doubt it's actually a 'quote' with an origin you can pinpoint any better than many such aphorisms like 'we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us'. Googling the last bit took me to a reddit post in a socialism subreddit that questioned whether people actually said that so there's that sidemusement as well.

grishka 6y ago

In the 80s, if you had a lot of money, you could import an actual PC. Or so I was told. There apparently also were ZX Spectrum clones that no one could afford. Also the Agat computer, a slightly incompatible Apple II clone that used a real imported 6502 because USSR wasn't able to produce its own one.

flir 6y ago
I wandered around the Polytechnic Museum in Moscow a couple of decades ago, thinking, at so many of the technology exhibits, "that looks reeeeeeaaally familiar".
- lb1lf 6y ago
  -As did I, chuckling at the 'built with foreign documentation' label affixed to many of the exhibits, in particular in the consumer electronics exhibition. Chuckle turned to laugh when I looked at the replica H-bomb in the lobby before leaving - first, a label stating 'Replica. Does not contain explosives.' Beneath this label? Another, stating 'built with foreign documentation.'
  - grishka 6y ago
    I probably should visit this museum the next time I come to Moscow for whatever reason.