4 ms·

> In the long run Apple won't be happy with that and maybe they'll waive the fee. I think you greatly overestimate how much Apple cares about this.

viro 6y ago
I think you underestimate how many power users use macOS. Most of their privacy and security marketing isn't really targeted at normal people. The avg. person doesn't really care that much.
- an_opabinia 6y ago
  It’s pretty impressive that Ubuntu and Arch (Power User-only experiences in my mind) are considered an alternative to macOS by anyone at all. It shows the Linux desktop is actually delivering something very valuable despite the numbers. Although that the numbers don’t tell the whole story isn’t really saying much. What if it turned out that ease of use and OS-wide app consistency was the easy part all along? That building good APIs - which includes not changing them, making a good publishing experience - which includes not changing your rules every six months, and making your developers rich - which includes lowering fees - were the hard parts? Besides the average person does care about privacy and security. Keychain is a product everyone on macOS and iOS uses. Imagine if the OS forced Private Browsing to actually work.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    How reliable is the security vetting in the Ubuntu store?
  - dhagz 6y ago
    The thing to remember is that, under all the chrome and Apple styling, macOS is rooted in BSD. So the power users who enjoy the *nix-y bits of macOS and are looking for a replacement will look for something that gives them more of that.
    - extremeMath 6y ago
      Is this a real thing? Like there are people that don't VM/SSH into Linux but use shell? What demographic is this? College kids and Apple employees? It seems like minor benefit in an otherwise atrocious platform.
      - viro 6y ago
        Over the years I haven't found very many unix tools I couldn't install with homebrew. I'm also a big fan of the move from Bash to ZSH. Why start up a VM or SSH into another machine if I can just use Terminal or Iterm.
        extremeMath 6y ago
        I don't understand. What commands are you sending your macbook outside installations? It's not like you are running a server, you still need to SSH into the server to do anything.
  - dTal 6y ago
    For what it's worth, look-and-feel is arguably more consistent on an OSS desktop than the average commercial workstation, these days. The vast majority of free apps and DEs are built on either GTK or QT, which have a broadly similar feel and can be themed to look identical. Meanwhile, closed/commerical apps are a mess of in-house toolkits and embedded web interfaces, and Windows even has several inconsistent styles in the base install.
- throWaythxMod 6y ago
  You are overestimating how many power users use Apple products. If you are technology literate, you've seen the evils of Apple for decades. A power user fixes their own problem, not waits years for Apple to fix it.
  - viro 6y ago
    This is clearly anecdotal, but nearly every dev/engineer from every company I have ever worked for has had an MBP as their work laptop.
    - extremeMath 6y ago
      I'm the other way, I've never seen a Macbook in an (Engineering) office setting, four fortune 500, two small businesses. I've seen them at University and some non STEM students homes. That said, I see iPhones at work, but probably because they are not critical to doing anything other than email.
      - athms 6y ago
        I worked at SAP for seven years in their cloud business and about half the engineering staff had MBP laptops. Some engineering teams used only Macs. Operations was the same way. Engineering computer usage in India was mostly Windows, China was ~50% Macs, US/Canada was ~80% Macs, and Europe was ~50% Macs.
        extremeMath 6y ago
        Software is not Engineering. You guys call your developers Engineers?
        viro 6y ago
        .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering

viro 6y ago

I think you underestimate how many power users use macOS. Most of their privacy and security marketing isn't really targeted at normal people. The avg. person doesn't really care that much.

an_opabinia 6y ago
It’s pretty impressive that Ubuntu and Arch (Power User-only experiences in my mind) are considered an alternative to macOS by anyone at all. It shows the Linux desktop is actually delivering something very valuable despite the numbers. Although that the numbers don’t tell the whole story isn’t really saying much. What if it turned out that ease of use and OS-wide app consistency was the easy part all along? That building good APIs - which includes not changing them, making a good publishing experience - which includes not changing your rules every six months, and making your developers rich - which includes lowering fees - were the hard parts? Besides the average person does care about privacy and security. Keychain is a product everyone on macOS and iOS uses. Imagine if the OS forced Private Browsing to actually work.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  How reliable is the security vetting in the Ubuntu store?
- dhagz 6y ago
  The thing to remember is that, under all the chrome and Apple styling, macOS is rooted in BSD. So the power users who enjoy the *nix-y bits of macOS and are looking for a replacement will look for something that gives them more of that.
  - extremeMath 6y ago
    Is this a real thing? Like there are people that don't VM/SSH into Linux but use shell? What demographic is this? College kids and Apple employees? It seems like minor benefit in an otherwise atrocious platform.
    - viro 6y ago
      Over the years I haven't found very many unix tools I couldn't install with homebrew. I'm also a big fan of the move from Bash to ZSH. Why start up a VM or SSH into another machine if I can just use Terminal or Iterm.
      - extremeMath 6y ago
        I don't understand. What commands are you sending your macbook outside installations? It's not like you are running a server, you still need to SSH into the server to do anything.
- dTal 6y ago
  For what it's worth, look-and-feel is arguably more consistent on an OSS desktop than the average commercial workstation, these days. The vast majority of free apps and DEs are built on either GTK or QT, which have a broadly similar feel and can be themed to look identical. Meanwhile, closed/commerical apps are a mess of in-house toolkits and embedded web interfaces, and Windows even has several inconsistent styles in the base install.
throWaythxMod 6y ago
You are overestimating how many power users use Apple products. If you are technology literate, you've seen the evils of Apple for decades. A power user fixes their own problem, not waits years for Apple to fix it.
- viro 6y ago
  This is clearly anecdotal, but nearly every dev/engineer from every company I have ever worked for has had an MBP as their work laptop.
  - extremeMath 6y ago
    I'm the other way, I've never seen a Macbook in an (Engineering) office setting, four fortune 500, two small businesses. I've seen them at University and some non STEM students homes. That said, I see iPhones at work, but probably because they are not critical to doing anything other than email.
    - athms 6y ago
      I worked at SAP for seven years in their cloud business and about half the engineering staff had MBP laptops. Some engineering teams used only Macs. Operations was the same way. Engineering computer usage in India was mostly Windows, China was ~50% Macs, US/Canada was ~80% Macs, and Europe was ~50% Macs.
      - extremeMath 6y ago
        Software is not Engineering. You guys call your developers Engineers?
        viro 6y ago
        .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering