4 ms·

Regarding browsers, I suspect the writing is on the wall. They have approached complexities rivalling full-fledged operating systems, and it seems to me that we

Regarding browsers, I suspect the writing is on the wall. They have approached complexities rivalling full-fledged operating systems, and it seems to me that we're heading in the direction of the same few giant vendors authoring and maintaining both. Independent browsers that are not customizations of existing engines are probably on the way out. So we are going to end up with a few major browsers, tightly integrated with their maker's OS, and other broswer 'apps' are going to differentiate on niche features but employ the same few engines underneath, so they won't make a difference to the openness or lack of it for the web. This is already the case with the sole exception of Firefox, the only truly independent browser not backed by an OS/platform vendor, and it's struggling badly precisely because of that. But hopefully, it will still manage to nominally keep pace with the "living standards" and be ready to step into renewed prominence when the bigger players mess up or become too top-heavy for their own good.

momokoko 6y ago
Firefox is struggling due to the borderline legally liable gross mismanagement of their executive leadership. How are any of these people allowed to be in control of, sadly what was, such an important piece of the open web? Mind blowing all of them do not resign out of shame and humiliation.
- mdoms 6y ago
  Can you give some examples of this mismanagement?
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    - spending funds donated for browser support on frivolous nonsense that nobody wanted - not allowing for earmarking of donations for specific projects - breaking user trust repeatedly - firing a large fraction of employees the evening prior to picking up funding (or because of, hard to see cause and effect separate here), almost ensuring that everybody else who is capable will jump ship or at a minimum work on polishing up their resume. - moving income derived from one project to support others that can't stand alone - allowing a vast gap to come into existence between how the outside world sees the company vs how the company sees itself - chasing lofty, highbrow future goals and vague missions at the expense of squandering market share and user goodwill for existing products - prioritizing new and shiny (but unproven) stuff over core and mission critical stuff Do you want me to go on?
    - ChrisSD 6y ago
      It would be better to first add evidence to the allegations you made. First of all, Mozilla donations never get used to fund browser development. Instead the browser is in part funded by "frivolous" projects that actually generate an income. The other major source of income is from Google web search. Firefox's dependence on this isn't ideal and has been critcised by many, hence the search for other revenue streams.
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        > It would be better to first add evidence to the allegations you made. Is there anything controversial in what I wrote? If so I am not aware of it, this has all been laid out in some detail by now - repeatedly - so I don't see why the burden of providing evidence should be on me, unless you think one or more of these items are controversial or contradicting evidence already out there. > Mozilla donations never get used to fund browser development. Exactly. But they should be. > Instead the browser is in part funded by "frivolous" projects that actually generate an income. I think the burden of proof is on you now. > The other major source of income is from Google web search. That is income that should 100% go to FireFox development, and never to anything else. > Firefox's dependence on this isn't ideal and has been critcised by many, hence the search for other revenue streams. Donations to the Mozilla foundation are one such stream.
        ChrisSD 6y ago
        Mozilla (as of 2018-2019[0]) gets millions of dollars from their profitable projects. Yes this pales in comparison to the hundreds of millions from web search partnership but then so does donations. However, significantly growing revenue from paid products and services is very possible. Whereas increasing donations by two orders of magnitude is very very unlikely. > this has all been laid out in some detail by now Providing a link to that would be useful. [0]: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-fdn-2018-short-form-final-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-fdn-201...
        6y ago
samoa42 6y ago
> Firefox, the only truly independent browser not backed by an OS/platform vendor is it? "In March 2020 Mozilla and KaiOS Technologies announced a partnership to update KaiOS with a modern version of the Gecko browser engine and more closely aligned testing infrastructure." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS

momokoko 6y ago

Firefox is struggling due to the borderline legally liable gross mismanagement of their executive leadership. How are any of these people allowed to be in control of, sadly what was, such an important piece of the open web? Mind blowing all of them do not resign out of shame and humiliation.

mdoms 6y ago
Can you give some examples of this mismanagement?
- jacquesm 6y ago
  - spending funds donated for browser support on frivolous nonsense that nobody wanted - not allowing for earmarking of donations for specific projects - breaking user trust repeatedly - firing a large fraction of employees the evening prior to picking up funding (or because of, hard to see cause and effect separate here), almost ensuring that everybody else who is capable will jump ship or at a minimum work on polishing up their resume. - moving income derived from one project to support others that can't stand alone - allowing a vast gap to come into existence between how the outside world sees the company vs how the company sees itself - chasing lofty, highbrow future goals and vague missions at the expense of squandering market share and user goodwill for existing products - prioritizing new and shiny (but unproven) stuff over core and mission critical stuff Do you want me to go on?
  - ChrisSD 6y ago
    It would be better to first add evidence to the allegations you made. First of all, Mozilla donations never get used to fund browser development. Instead the browser is in part funded by "frivolous" projects that actually generate an income. The other major source of income is from Google web search. Firefox's dependence on this isn't ideal and has been critcised by many, hence the search for other revenue streams.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      > It would be better to first add evidence to the allegations you made. Is there anything controversial in what I wrote? If so I am not aware of it, this has all been laid out in some detail by now - repeatedly - so I don't see why the burden of providing evidence should be on me, unless you think one or more of these items are controversial or contradicting evidence already out there. > Mozilla donations never get used to fund browser development. Exactly. But they should be. > Instead the browser is in part funded by "frivolous" projects that actually generate an income. I think the burden of proof is on you now. > The other major source of income is from Google web search. That is income that should 100% go to FireFox development, and never to anything else. > Firefox's dependence on this isn't ideal and has been critcised by many, hence the search for other revenue streams. Donations to the Mozilla foundation are one such stream.
      - ChrisSD 6y ago
        Mozilla (as of 2018-2019[0]) gets millions of dollars from their profitable projects. Yes this pales in comparison to the hundreds of millions from web search partnership but then so does donations. However, significantly growing revenue from paid products and services is very possible. Whereas increasing donations by two orders of magnitude is very very unlikely. > this has all been laid out in some detail by now Providing a link to that would be useful. [0]: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-fdn-2018-short-form-final-0926.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-fdn-201...
        6y ago

samoa42 6y ago

> Firefox, the only truly independent browser not backed by an OS/platform vendor is it? "In March 2020 Mozilla and KaiOS Technologies announced a partnership to update KaiOS with a modern version of the Gecko browser engine and more closely aligned testing infrastructure." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS