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I know Apple's walled garden approach isn't for everybody, but I'd personally love to see them make a search engine that isn't built around Ads. The strategy al

I know Apple's walled garden approach isn't for everybody, but I'd personally love to see them make a search engine that isn't built around Ads. The strategy also is consistent with their pursuit of vertical integration. I use DuckDuckGo for search, and do trust them with privacy. But if Apple did a half-decent job at nailing the search experience, I'd switch.

wvenable 6y ago
> I'd personally love to see them make a search engine that isn't built around Ads The ads that Apple sells on the app store contribute $2 billion in revenue -- I don't think they'd build a search engine that isn't built around ads.
- pwinnski 6y ago
  Which is pretty staggering, given that the ads only appear on search results within the App Store. The scale is amazing.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  Yes, and they've also been caught selling iTunes user data. People thinking Apple aren't going to copy Google's revenue model to some degree are delusional.
  - JimDabell 6y ago
    If you’re referring to this lawsuit [0], then the plaintiffs provided no evidence and the court dismissed the case with prejudice. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/26/accusing-apple-of-selling-customer-data/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/26/accusing-apple-of-selling-cus...
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I find it unlikely Apple is going to compromise their their privacy first reputation to make an advertising platform which is competitive with Google's. I wouldn't be surprised to see advertising if Apple releases search, but it will likely be context (what you searched for) driven reliance rather than based on deep tracking. That would make it far less appealing to the skeezier advertisers. I'd expect something similar to what you see in News. I can't see how Apple would even do the kind of search result pollution Google does now. In fact, I suspect the only reason Apple is launching advertising is because they see an opportunity to provide a better experience—namely one where you see organic results immediately.
kibwen 6y ago
I think it's too soon to assume that Apple's search engine would be accessible directly from the web, rather than just being a backend for search functionality from within iOS. After all, they don't host any Apple Maps equivalent to Google Maps on the web.
- burlesona 6y ago
  Actually they do offer maps for web, but the way you get to it is via DuckDuckGo. Example: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=San+Francisco&t=h_&ia=web&iaxm=maps&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=San+Francisco&t=h_&ia=web&iaxm=map...
  - kibibyte 6y ago
    Is this an exclusive DuckDuckGo and Apple partnership, or are there other websites that also use Apple Maps?
    - jolux 6y ago
      https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs
    - aqrashik 6y ago
      If you have an Apple Developer subscription, you should be able to use Apple Maps using Mapkit on any website - https://developer.apple.com/maps/web/ https://developer.apple.com/maps/web/
  - wnissen 6y ago
    When I do that, I can't get directions, though. It refers me to Bing, GMaps, HERE (the Nokia one), and OpenStreetMap.
Nextgrid 6y ago
A search engine that optimizes for good content instead of SEO-spam and ads would be a very welcome addition. Google seems to have given up on fighting malicious/spammy SEO (I'd expect them to identify and downrank spammy tricks like what the recipe websites do).
- Spivak 6y ago
  Millionshort is a good search engine for avoiding spam sites.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  I'm in favour of competition for Google, but I can't be the only one who genuinely has no issue using Google? I see people complaining on HN quite a lot but genuinely the only thing I have - in years - struggled to find was the correct eBPF documentation but even then it only took a bit of nudging.
  - uxp100 6y ago
    I think there are types of searches it does very poorly on, but also different people have different expectations. In my experience, if something is a product for sale, the first several pages are always places to buy it, which is never what I’m looking for, I already have online shops I like and saw the item there, or am searching from inside a store. I want reviews, forum experience, or even just pictures. for example, actual pictures of a bike rack installed on a bike like mine, not just the manufacturer’s steel floating in a white void pics. In addition, google has become very aggressive with disregarding words. So a search like (a fake example, not tried the search, not a real place) Jim’s tasty pizza Albuquerque 90s where I’m searching for where a restaurant I remember as a child was located, and has maybe 5 real results from a local history Wordpress blog 15 years ago and Facebook posts, Google will just drop everything specific and give you results for Albuquerque pizza, and then mainly show ads for national chains up top. So I need quotes in the search pretty much always.
    - EricE 6y ago
      If you go into the advanced search options you can tell Google to explicitly search on what you type. I use it so often for the reasons you point out (because nowadays in their infinite wisdom they will helpfully ignore quotes too) it occurs to me I should either find an extension or script to just have it enabled by default.
graeme 6y ago
It would seem silly not to include ads based on the text string the user searches. Even without tracking/personalization those are insanely valuable.

wvenable 6y ago

> I'd personally love to see them make a search engine that isn't built around Ads The ads that Apple sells on the app store contribute $2 billion in revenue -- I don't think they'd build a search engine that isn't built around ads.

pwinnski 6y ago
Which is pretty staggering, given that the ads only appear on search results within the App Store. The scale is amazing.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
Yes, and they've also been caught selling iTunes user data. People thinking Apple aren't going to copy Google's revenue model to some degree are delusional.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  If you’re referring to this lawsuit [0], then the plaintiffs provided no evidence and the court dismissed the case with prejudice. [0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/26/accusing-apple-of-selling-customer-data/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/26/accusing-apple-of-selling-cus...
ogre_codes 6y ago
I find it unlikely Apple is going to compromise their their privacy first reputation to make an advertising platform which is competitive with Google's. I wouldn't be surprised to see advertising if Apple releases search, but it will likely be context (what you searched for) driven reliance rather than based on deep tracking. That would make it far less appealing to the skeezier advertisers. I'd expect something similar to what you see in News. I can't see how Apple would even do the kind of search result pollution Google does now. In fact, I suspect the only reason Apple is launching advertising is because they see an opportunity to provide a better experience—namely one where you see organic results immediately.

kibwen 6y ago

I think it's too soon to assume that Apple's search engine would be accessible directly from the web, rather than just being a backend for search functionality from within iOS. After all, they don't host any Apple Maps equivalent to Google Maps on the web.

burlesona 6y ago
Actually they do offer maps for web, but the way you get to it is via DuckDuckGo. Example: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=San+Francisco&t=h_&ia=web&iaxm=maps&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=San+Francisco&t=h_&ia=web&iaxm=map...
- kibibyte 6y ago
  Is this an exclusive DuckDuckGo and Apple partnership, or are there other websites that also use Apple Maps?
  - jolux 6y ago
    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mapkitjs
  - aqrashik 6y ago
    If you have an Apple Developer subscription, you should be able to use Apple Maps using Mapkit on any website - https://developer.apple.com/maps/web/ https://developer.apple.com/maps/web/
- wnissen 6y ago
  When I do that, I can't get directions, though. It refers me to Bing, GMaps, HERE (the Nokia one), and OpenStreetMap.

Nextgrid 6y ago

A search engine that optimizes for good content instead of SEO-spam and ads would be a very welcome addition. Google seems to have given up on fighting malicious/spammy SEO (I'd expect them to identify and downrank spammy tricks like what the recipe websites do).

Spivak 6y ago
Millionshort is a good search engine for avoiding spam sites.
mhh__ 6y ago
I'm in favour of competition for Google, but I can't be the only one who genuinely has no issue using Google? I see people complaining on HN quite a lot but genuinely the only thing I have - in years - struggled to find was the correct eBPF documentation but even then it only took a bit of nudging.
- uxp100 6y ago
  I think there are types of searches it does very poorly on, but also different people have different expectations. In my experience, if something is a product for sale, the first several pages are always places to buy it, which is never what I’m looking for, I already have online shops I like and saw the item there, or am searching from inside a store. I want reviews, forum experience, or even just pictures. for example, actual pictures of a bike rack installed on a bike like mine, not just the manufacturer’s steel floating in a white void pics. In addition, google has become very aggressive with disregarding words. So a search like (a fake example, not tried the search, not a real place) Jim’s tasty pizza Albuquerque 90s where I’m searching for where a restaurant I remember as a child was located, and has maybe 5 real results from a local history Wordpress blog 15 years ago and Facebook posts, Google will just drop everything specific and give you results for Albuquerque pizza, and then mainly show ads for national chains up top. So I need quotes in the search pretty much always.
  - EricE 6y ago
    If you go into the advanced search options you can tell Google to explicitly search on what you type. I use it so often for the reasons you point out (because nowadays in their infinite wisdom they will helpfully ignore quotes too) it occurs to me I should either find an extension or script to just have it enabled by default.

graeme 6y ago

It would seem silly not to include ads based on the text string the user searches. Even without tracking/personalization those are insanely valuable.