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Have you ever tried filing a misconduct compliant with a bar association? You'll get just about as far as a police violence compliant with the local PD. The bar

Have you ever tried filing a misconduct compliant with a bar association? You'll get just about as far as a police violence compliant with the local PD. The bar is there to serve the lawyers, like any guild or union. For the most part, there are no checks on lawyer ethics.

gamblor956 6y ago
I've actually served on the ethics committee for the bar association. We discipline lawyers all the time. The bar does not exist to serve lawyers, it exists to regulate them.
- justinclift 6y ago
  From the perspective of a lay person, it doesn't to be effective in doing so. eg. Places like Prenda Law being able to operate openly for years before being shut down, etc.
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Prenda Law operated for 1 year before they were caught, and then. Disbarred and imprisoned. The reason they continued their crimes for 3 years was that it's impossible to prevent someone from doing paperwork crimes if they aren't in prison.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      > Prenda Law operated for 1 year ... While technically yes. They just opened another company and kept on going. Guess I should have said "Prenda Law and it's various incarnations". ;) > ... it's impossible to prevent someone from doing paperwork crimes if they aren't in prison. That's the whole point. ;) On that note, it looks like Paul Hansmeier is now attempting to start that racket back up again, even from behind bars.
- elgenie 6y ago
  > The bar does not exist to serve lawyers, it exists to regulate them. Those are far from being in opposition. A cynic might say the bar exists to serve lawyers as a class by doing the bare minimum to appear to be regulating them.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  It exists to avoid the courts stepping in to regulate them. If it weren't for the bar association keeping the worst out of view there would be a lot more lawyers reprimanded by judges instead. This is probably efficient, but not a sign that the bar association serves individual lawyers. It serves them collectively by keeping the dirty laundry within the organization rather than to submit to outside regulation.
tptacek 6y ago
Isn't the bar association a guild or union? The state court system hears serious ethics complaints.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Each state delegates much of the legal oversight of lawyers to the $State Bar Association, from initial licensing to disbarrment.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    It depends on the state. In New York and Illinois, the bar is an organ of the court system, and bar associations are separate private organizations.
- woofie11 6y ago
  For the most part, complaints are handled through the Bar. Unless something is a press-worthy scandal, they are promptly ignored by most Bars. The goal is to protect lawyers, not clients. A press-worthy case hurts lawyers. Normal scams are, well, what most lawyers do. Suing a lawyer for malpractice in courts is very tough. There are all sorts of barriers. For example, let's say your lawyer fails to file legal paperwork on-time, and you lose a case. You can sue, but to collect damages: * You have to show that in the alternative case, you would have won. The lawyer will argue you would have lost in either case. * The case against your lawyer will likely impact your main case, and not in ways you like. If your lawyer charges billable hours without actually working -- something which is standard practice among lawyers in my community -- you need to be able to prove that. It's the culture here: * I've been to lunch with lawyers who bragged they were billing someone else for the time * Lawyers routinely double-bill if e.g. handling client emails on a cell phone while in court for another client. ). How do you do that? So it happens all the time, and I've gotten insane bills when nothing was done. You can't prove that in court, though. There's no case. And so on.

gamblor956 6y ago

I've actually served on the ethics committee for the bar association. We discipline lawyers all the time. The bar does not exist to serve lawyers, it exists to regulate them.

justinclift 6y ago
From the perspective of a lay person, it doesn't to be effective in doing so. eg. Places like Prenda Law being able to operate openly for years before being shut down, etc.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Prenda Law operated for 1 year before they were caught, and then. Disbarred and imprisoned. The reason they continued their crimes for 3 years was that it's impossible to prevent someone from doing paperwork crimes if they aren't in prison.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    > Prenda Law operated for 1 year ... While technically yes. They just opened another company and kept on going. Guess I should have said "Prenda Law and it's various incarnations". ;) > ... it's impossible to prevent someone from doing paperwork crimes if they aren't in prison. That's the whole point. ;) On that note, it looks like Paul Hansmeier is now attempting to start that racket back up again, even from behind bars.
elgenie 6y ago
> The bar does not exist to serve lawyers, it exists to regulate them. Those are far from being in opposition. A cynic might say the bar exists to serve lawyers as a class by doing the bare minimum to appear to be regulating them.
jacquesm 6y ago
It exists to avoid the courts stepping in to regulate them. If it weren't for the bar association keeping the worst out of view there would be a lot more lawyers reprimanded by judges instead. This is probably efficient, but not a sign that the bar association serves individual lawyers. It serves them collectively by keeping the dirty laundry within the organization rather than to submit to outside regulation.

tptacek 6y ago

Isn't the bar association a guild or union? The state court system hears serious ethics complaints.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
Each state delegates much of the legal oversight of lawyers to the $State Bar Association, from initial licensing to disbarrment.
- rayiner 6y ago
  It depends on the state. In New York and Illinois, the bar is an organ of the court system, and bar associations are separate private organizations.
woofie11 6y ago
For the most part, complaints are handled through the Bar. Unless something is a press-worthy scandal, they are promptly ignored by most Bars. The goal is to protect lawyers, not clients. A press-worthy case hurts lawyers. Normal scams are, well, what most lawyers do. Suing a lawyer for malpractice in courts is very tough. There are all sorts of barriers. For example, let's say your lawyer fails to file legal paperwork on-time, and you lose a case. You can sue, but to collect damages: * You have to show that in the alternative case, you would have won. The lawyer will argue you would have lost in either case. * The case against your lawyer will likely impact your main case, and not in ways you like. If your lawyer charges billable hours without actually working -- something which is standard practice among lawyers in my community -- you need to be able to prove that. It's the culture here: * I've been to lunch with lawyers who bragged they were billing someone else for the time * Lawyers routinely double-bill if e.g. handling client emails on a cell phone while in court for another client. ). How do you do that? So it happens all the time, and I've gotten insane bills when nothing was done. You can't prove that in court, though. There's no case. And so on.