6 ms·

My recollection is slightly different: > 1. Masks don't work! -> Nope, they do. I thought that originally the WHO said that masks are not proven to work, not

by cbsks 6y ago

My recollection is slightly different: > 1. Masks don't work! -> Nope, they do. I thought that originally the WHO said that masks are not proven to work, not that they don't work at all. Now masks are proven to work. > 2. You need training to make masks work! -> Nope, you don't. > 3. If you don't wear your mask perfectly, you're going to get the disease. The outcome is binary. -> Doesn't look that way. I don't remember these guidances from the WHO or CDC. Can you provide a source?

renewiltord 6y ago
First of all, I didn't mention the CDC. Much of what I was talking about was about what HN and forums like this talked about. However, some of these things do apply to health authorities. Fortunately for me, I don't need to rely on my recollection. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321... I will quote it here: > Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! > They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! > http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm And of course, Fauci told everyone not to wear masks. But that doesn't matter. This is the Surgeon General saying "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching Coronavirus". That is a categorical statement.
- cbsks 6y ago
  I stand corrected! I had forgotten that the Surgeon General said that. My theory is that when people think that the guidance has radically shifted throughout the COVID-19 epidemic, it's because they are getting their information from non-authoritative sources. But like your example, sometimes the "authoritative sources" are super wrong. Dr Fauci did eventually admit that the guidance on masks was not optimal: > "We have to admit it, that that mixed message in the beginning, even though it was well meant to allow masks to be available for health workers, that was detrimental in getting the message across," Fauci said in an interview with Mary Louise Kelly of NPR's All Things Considered. "No doubt about it." https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/01/886299190/it-does-not-have-to-be-100-000-cases-a-day-fauci-urges-u-s-to-follow-guidelines https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/01/8862991... What about your points 2 and 3?
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Points 2 and 3 are HN responses to my comments or adjacent ones. It's going to be a bit hard to find them now, but I'll post them at the bottom. Listen, I really don't want to Gish Gallop you, but there's no way for me to claim people were saying this without showing you people saying this: (and there are way more people saying this on Reddit and Twitter, but time is short, so I can't do any more research for you) 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22777170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22777170 (claims that training is required or you're going to get rekt, read thread) 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776396 (while doesn't claim a no-threshold model, the threshold is a hundred viral particles) 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22735235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22735235 3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734656 4: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734923 5: https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024?s=20 (the WHO saying not to wear a mask, by the way) 6: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22530340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22530340 7: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22610180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22610180 8: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22595955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22595955 9: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559272 10: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22528527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22528527 11: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22529273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22529273
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - cbsks 6y ago
      Ah, I misread your original post. I thought you were talking about the official recommendations being wrong and then changing. The "general public shouldn't wear masks" is one example where the guidance changed, but I'd argue that overall it's been relatively consistent. If you are just looking for random people on the Internet being wrong, then yes, there are lots of examples of that!
- perl4ever 6y ago
  >They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching Coronavirus The N95 masks weren't, and aren't, in the sense he meant. People have said over and over, the way the masks we're wearing now are effective is in protecting others from us, should we be infected. I used to accept that the "party line" changed, but now I think it's just a misunderstanding.
  - misanthropian00 6y ago
    N95 masks very likely do provide a lot of protection from airborne virus droplets and aerosols, but they are still unavailable in most parts of the world including the US. I was able to find some Korean KF94 masks though. There is no evidence for one way protection btw. It may be true but right now it is entirely speculative.

by cbsks 6y ago

renewiltord 6y ago

First of all, I didn't mention the CDC. Much of what I was talking about was about what HN and forums like this talked about. However, some of these things do apply to health authorities. Fortunately for me, I don't need to rely on my recollection. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321... I will quote it here: > Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! > They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! > http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm And of course, Fauci told everyone not to wear masks. But that doesn't matter. This is the Surgeon General saying "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching Coronavirus". That is a categorical statement.

cbsks 6y ago
I stand corrected! I had forgotten that the Surgeon General said that. My theory is that when people think that the guidance has radically shifted throughout the COVID-19 epidemic, it's because they are getting their information from non-authoritative sources. But like your example, sometimes the "authoritative sources" are super wrong. Dr Fauci did eventually admit that the guidance on masks was not optimal: > "We have to admit it, that that mixed message in the beginning, even though it was well meant to allow masks to be available for health workers, that was detrimental in getting the message across," Fauci said in an interview with Mary Louise Kelly of NPR's All Things Considered. "No doubt about it." https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/01/886299190/it-does-not-have-to-be-100-000-cases-a-day-fauci-urges-u-s-to-follow-guidelines https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/01/8862991... What about your points 2 and 3?
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Points 2 and 3 are HN responses to my comments or adjacent ones. It's going to be a bit hard to find them now, but I'll post them at the bottom. Listen, I really don't want to Gish Gallop you, but there's no way for me to claim people were saying this without showing you people saying this: (and there are way more people saying this on Reddit and Twitter, but time is short, so I can't do any more research for you) 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22777170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22777170 (claims that training is required or you're going to get rekt, read thread) 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22776396 (while doesn't claim a no-threshold model, the threshold is a hundred viral particles) 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22735235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22735235 3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734656 4: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22734923 5: https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024?s=20 (the WHO saying not to wear a mask, by the way) 6: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22530340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22530340 7: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22610180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22610180 8: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22595955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22595955 9: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22559272 10: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22528527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22528527 11: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22529273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22529273
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - cbsks 6y ago
    Ah, I misread your original post. I thought you were talking about the official recommendations being wrong and then changing. The "general public shouldn't wear masks" is one example where the guidance changed, but I'd argue that overall it's been relatively consistent. If you are just looking for random people on the Internet being wrong, then yes, there are lots of examples of that!
perl4ever 6y ago
>They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching Coronavirus The N95 masks weren't, and aren't, in the sense he meant. People have said over and over, the way the masks we're wearing now are effective is in protecting others from us, should we be infected. I used to accept that the "party line" changed, but now I think it's just a misunderstanding.
- misanthropian00 6y ago
  N95 masks very likely do provide a lot of protection from airborne virus droplets and aerosols, but they are still unavailable in most parts of the world including the US. I was able to find some Korean KF94 masks though. There is no evidence for one way protection btw. It may be true but right now it is entirely speculative.