4 ms·

Hmm. So, on the opposite end from the extremities of ostracism and abandonment, what are some ways that shame can be legitimately utilized in more minimal manne

Hmm. So, on the opposite end from the extremities of ostracism and abandonment, what are some ways that shame can be legitimately utilized in more minimal manner, in your view?

acituan 6y ago
I’ve just enumerated the use cases. For them, a simple “That is not appropriate” or “Imagine what would others think of you” would be examples to shame based instruction. It is perfectly OK to invoke the fear of a loss in social connection if certain rules are broken, that is one of the ways we maintain social cohesion as desiring, driven, id-possesing beings. In contrast, toxic shame is using this machinery willy nilly anytime we demand cooperation as parents or peers.
- boneitis 6y ago
  Oh, interesting! We certainly see eye to eye far more than I'd initially thought, regarding actual methods in practice. I generally like to label such actions as something more like "providing immediate/direct feedback" over light shame and, re: "what would others think of you," I might rather try to frame as something like serving to one's convenience in future interactions. Thanks.
  - acituan 6y ago
    Thanks for your kindly inquiry to clarify it. Indeed shame been excessively associated with its shadow side because that is how we have been using it, while even those light versions could feel distressing enough for particularly sensitive kids. I really like this anecdote about shame: “In the 1990s I led a workshop in South Africa, soon after the Truth and Reconciliation Comission had started. After the workshop someone ... opened up about their experience working with one of the country’s tribes and how the tribe dealt with shame. When someone did something wrong the entire tribe would all gather, circling around this person ... telling them over and over again all the things they’ve done right, all the wonderful qualities about them, all the good things that they are. The tribe would provide a counter-point to the inner shame of doing something wrong, by holding up a mirror of who that person “really” is. Not implying that they hadn’t done wrong, but rather mirroring back their true nature”. From Attachment-Based Yoga & Meditation for Trauma Recovery, D. Fey, pg. 57.

Hmm. So, on the opposite end from the extremities of ostracism and abandonment, what are some ways that shame can be legitimately utilized in more minimal manner, in your view?

acituan 6y ago

I’ve just enumerated the use cases. For them, a simple “That is not appropriate” or “Imagine what would others think of you” would be examples to shame based instruction. It is perfectly OK to invoke the fear of a loss in social connection if certain rules are broken, that is one of the ways we maintain social cohesion as desiring, driven, id-possesing beings. In contrast, toxic shame is using this machinery willy nilly anytime we demand cooperation as parents or peers.

boneitis 6y ago
Oh, interesting! We certainly see eye to eye far more than I'd initially thought, regarding actual methods in practice. I generally like to label such actions as something more like "providing immediate/direct feedback" over light shame and, re: "what would others think of you," I might rather try to frame as something like serving to one's convenience in future interactions. Thanks.
- acituan 6y ago
  Thanks for your kindly inquiry to clarify it. Indeed shame been excessively associated with its shadow side because that is how we have been using it, while even those light versions could feel distressing enough for particularly sensitive kids. I really like this anecdote about shame: “In the 1990s I led a workshop in South Africa, soon after the Truth and Reconciliation Comission had started. After the workshop someone ... opened up about their experience working with one of the country’s tribes and how the tribe dealt with shame. When someone did something wrong the entire tribe would all gather, circling around this person ... telling them over and over again all the things they’ve done right, all the wonderful qualities about them, all the good things that they are. The tribe would provide a counter-point to the inner shame of doing something wrong, by holding up a mirror of who that person “really” is. Not implying that they hadn’t done wrong, but rather mirroring back their true nature”. From Attachment-Based Yoga & Meditation for Trauma Recovery, D. Fey, pg. 57.