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I can't believe someone would even allow a system with that balance to even connect to the internet. It's like filling a car with gold bars, driving it around t

by Canada 6y ago

I can't believe someone would even allow a system with that balance to even connect to the internet. It's like filling a car with gold bars, driving it around town, and hoping nothing bad happens. He could have created another wallet, preferably a multisig, created the transaction with the software wallet offline, copied the signed transaction off and broadcast it from another system. What he did was reckless. Some people are going cry that Bitcoin is unsafe because of this. It's not. You must handle large amounts of cash or gold or other valuables with care.

herpderperator 6y ago
Bitcoin is all online. The analogy doesn't work: your gold bars are being driven around town all day and night in public view, already. In this case, it's just the fact that the access was granted at the application level when the user logged into their wallet, which is like giving someone keys to your car by mistake.
- jkepler 6y ago
  No. One can store keys offline. That's what hardware wallets do.
  - herpderperator 6y ago
    In order to do anything with Bitcoin, which appears to be what the author wanted, you would have to be connected to the Internet. Keys being stored in hardware wallet sure, but the gold bars are still in public view. Hardware wallets aren't without their flaws. With an application-level vulneravility in a hardware wallet, you are still screwed. Here is just one example: https://www.ledger.com/improving-the-ecosystem-disclosure-of-the-trezor-recovery-phrase-extraction-vulnerability https://www.ledger.com/improving-the-ecosystem-disclosure-of...
    - vmception 6y ago
      You can sign transactions offline and hand deliver the file if you felt so inclined. Signed transactions cant be modified. Someone needs to make sure nodes see it that transaction and add it to the database, eventually. This user experience has not been refined, but is very possible. A system with fewer nodes, like if the internet was attacked and not available, would still work for this currency.
      - natcombs 6y ago
        > You can sign transactions offline and hand deliver the file if you felt so inclined. How big is that signature/file? Can it be encoded in a QR code or something simpler to bridge the airgap?
        ggreer 6y ago
        It's usually less than 300 bytes. A comically huge QR code could handle that.
        Canada 6y ago
        The specific transaction this post refers to was 1813 bytes. It had 12 inputs that had to be signed for making it larger than average. For $10M I'd be willing to manually type out the 3626 hex digits, or if feeling lazy splurge on a $10 USB stick. Only 3 inputs account for almost all of the balance, so really it could have been moved for under 1000 bytes, which I happily write longhand on paper with a quill in triplicate before I'd even consider exposing the secret key to the internet.
        mianos 6y ago
        Like the Coldcard wallet where you can choose to only transfer the transaction via an air gap on a MicroSD.
    - Canada 6y ago
      It just doesn't work that way. The wallet has a secret which can be used to sign a transaction to spend the balance. It doesn't need to be connected to do this. The transaction is a serialized piece of data which can be broadcast to the network. The size varies depending on certain factors, but it's usually about 250 bytes. Electrum can create this transaction and show you a hex dump of it which you could copy off and submit to the network from a different system that is online. An attacker who controls the online system would be unable to modify the transaction. With more than $10M at stake it is prudent to do that, just like it would be best to use an armored truck to move $10M in cash.
captn3m0 6y ago
From looking at the transaction history, looks like it was an actively used account, even.
coronadisaster 6y ago
You have to keep them in an encrypted container.... Then you can email a backup to yourself

by Canada 6y ago

herpderperator 6y ago

Bitcoin is all online. The analogy doesn't work: your gold bars are being driven around town all day and night in public view, already. In this case, it's just the fact that the access was granted at the application level when the user logged into their wallet, which is like giving someone keys to your car by mistake.

jkepler 6y ago
No. One can store keys offline. That's what hardware wallets do.
- herpderperator 6y ago
  In order to do anything with Bitcoin, which appears to be what the author wanted, you would have to be connected to the Internet. Keys being stored in hardware wallet sure, but the gold bars are still in public view. Hardware wallets aren't without their flaws. With an application-level vulneravility in a hardware wallet, you are still screwed. Here is just one example: https://www.ledger.com/improving-the-ecosystem-disclosure-of-the-trezor-recovery-phrase-extraction-vulnerability https://www.ledger.com/improving-the-ecosystem-disclosure-of...
  - vmception 6y ago
    You can sign transactions offline and hand deliver the file if you felt so inclined. Signed transactions cant be modified. Someone needs to make sure nodes see it that transaction and add it to the database, eventually. This user experience has not been refined, but is very possible. A system with fewer nodes, like if the internet was attacked and not available, would still work for this currency.
    - natcombs 6y ago
      > You can sign transactions offline and hand deliver the file if you felt so inclined. How big is that signature/file? Can it be encoded in a QR code or something simpler to bridge the airgap?
      - ggreer 6y ago
        It's usually less than 300 bytes. A comically huge QR code could handle that.
      - Canada 6y ago
        The specific transaction this post refers to was 1813 bytes. It had 12 inputs that had to be signed for making it larger than average. For $10M I'd be willing to manually type out the 3626 hex digits, or if feeling lazy splurge on a $10 USB stick. Only 3 inputs account for almost all of the balance, so really it could have been moved for under 1000 bytes, which I happily write longhand on paper with a quill in triplicate before I'd even consider exposing the secret key to the internet.
      - mianos 6y ago
        Like the Coldcard wallet where you can choose to only transfer the transaction via an air gap on a MicroSD.
  - Canada 6y ago
    It just doesn't work that way. The wallet has a secret which can be used to sign a transaction to spend the balance. It doesn't need to be connected to do this. The transaction is a serialized piece of data which can be broadcast to the network. The size varies depending on certain factors, but it's usually about 250 bytes. Electrum can create this transaction and show you a hex dump of it which you could copy off and submit to the network from a different system that is online. An attacker who controls the online system would be unable to modify the transaction. With more than $10M at stake it is prudent to do that, just like it would be best to use an armored truck to move $10M in cash.

captn3m0 6y ago

From looking at the transaction history, looks like it was an actively used account, even.

coronadisaster 6y ago

You have to keep them in an encrypted container.... Then you can email a backup to yourself