6 ms·

Nonsense. There are very walkable and affordable cities with pleasant neighborhoods that don't break the bank in all parts of the world (sans North America). Of

Nonsense. There are very walkable and affordable cities with pleasant neighborhoods that don't break the bank in all parts of the world (sans North America). Off the top of my head and from first hand experience: - Warsaw - Glasgow - Porto - Lisbon - Athens (Greece) - Berlin - Budapest - Barcelona (OK, this one gets pricey but is superbly laid out)

smerdyakov 6y ago
To be fair at least some of these cities aren't described as affordable by locals. Berliners are constantly complaining about the rent prices.
- abraxas 6y ago
  I also heard that lately. But up until the recent run up in prices it was quite the bargain for what you were getting.
- siliconvalley1 6y ago
  Probably true of locals of every city in the world but Berlin in particular is still very cheap relative to many western EU cities. Numbeo cost of living index has it 153rd in the world including rent and it's well below places like Houston which is probably the cheapest large top tier city in the US.
wozniacki 6y ago
The cities you list are not exactly diverse economic powerhouses in the same way even Houston is. A comparison of the "GDPs" of those cities would show that much. Also no one wants to walk through blighted or a high crime neighborhood. American cities have a lot more diversity than any of the cities you mention with income disparities separating various races and stocks of people. Homogeneity of the populaces involved is a factor often totally and wholly ignored in these comparisons of "walkable and affordable" cities. Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. Not even remotely close to the extent we encounter in America. Like I said this metric should be factored into these conversations.
- abraxas 6y ago
  Is this your long winded way of saying "I'm scared of black people"? There are plenty of very diverse races living in Europe and nobody is scared of them.
  - pueblito 6y ago
    That is completely not what he said and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself for taking a sincere and thoughtful reply and twisting it to call him a racist.
    - abraxas 6y ago
      I did not call him racist so don't put words in my mouth. I said that he sounded like he was scared of Black Americans which I think is rather obvious from what he wrote. Granted I'm not an American and I have no idea how hostile race relations run in that country but I know that in most of Western Europe and in Canada most people have no issues mingling with other races and all neighborhoods are getting increasingly diverse.
- crispyporkbites 6y ago
  > Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. Not even remotely close to the extent we encounter in America. I don’t know what Opa Locka is like but Belfast is not a good example to compare to.
- rgblambda 6y ago
  >>Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. I think you may have picked the worst possible example for articulating your point.
mcguire 6y ago
Upside: an apartment in Warsaw is 2114 Zloty (about $600). Downside: it's 38 sq m (410 sq ft). On the other hand, 650-1000 sq ft apartments go for 4500 Zloty ($1200), so go pack your bags now! (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109102/poland-average-rental-prices/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109102/poland-average-r...) Want to buy? 2000 Euro / sq m. (https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Poland/Price-History https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Poland/Price-Hist...) Budapest? Average apartment size in Hungary is 77 sq m. Average in Budapest is 57-65 m^2. You Forints go a long way: 2824 / sq m (~$10?!?). I'm in! (https://www.towerbudapest.com/en/property_management/news/an-average-apartment-in-budapest-costs-122-thousand-forints/676 https://www.towerbudapest.com/en/property_management/news/an...)
- betaby 6y ago
  I would say those are very expensive for the local salaries.
  - abraxas 6y ago
    In those countries it _really_ depends what your job is. If you're a teacher or a bus driver then yes rent is too damn high. If on the other hand, you have a corporate job at a branch of a western company it's extremely cheap. Software developers in Warsaw easily make 10-20K PLN per month thus having rent costs less than a quarter of their paycheck.
    - betaby 6y ago
      Still wouldn't call that cheap percentage wise. Software developer in Montreal pays about 25-30% of the salary for 100m2 as well.
      - abraxas 6y ago
        Yeah but Monteral is frigid for 8 months in a year and has so so public transit IMO. It is in Canada though which I dearly love (but not for its weather or its cities).
kmlx 6y ago
two issues with that list: most of those cities are poor, or at least not as affluent as others. and except glasgow, none accept english speakers. and since we're doing lists, these are the most expensive cities i lived in (coincidentally some of them are the best cities in the world to live in, bar none): - sydney - tokyo - singapore - hong kong - london all top notch, all extremely expensive. moral of the story is: you get what you pay for.
- ric2b 6y ago
  > and except glasgow, none accept english speakers. What do you mean by don't accept? Porto and Lisbon are quite easy to get around as an English speaker, most young people are very decent at speaking English.
  - kmlx 6y ago
    there is a huge difference between "getting around" and "moving to, paying taxes, establishing a company, having locals as friends, selling your product to locals". none of these can be achieved with english since they do not have it as an official language. sure, there are ways around it, but it is a huge downside, especially when things get hairy.
mamon 6y ago
Warsaw is TERRIBLE place to live. The city is ugly and dirty and always stuck in traffic (and yes, busses get stuck in traffic too), most office jobs are located in two main hubs, and it typically takes at least 30 minutes to get there by car (but then there's usually no place to park) or 45 by public transport. I'm very glad that the pandemic forced my company to go all-remote, because I was wasting a lot of time on my commute. Yes, small grocery stores are at every corner but for other things, like clothes or electronics you still have to go to a big shopping mall, at least 2-3 miles away. Oh, and did I mention all those are closed almost every Sunday? As for apartment prices even for really well paid software developer the choice is basically between buying a small (500 sqft) flat close to work, or bigger (800-1000 sqft) far away from it, with the added inconvenience of jet planes waking you up in the middle of the night, because Warsaw is stupid enough to have big international airport located near the city center. EDIT: Another thing: after more intensive rains some of the subway stations get flooded, so they are out of service for several hours. Not that there are many subway stations in Warsaw - just 34, forming one and half line

smerdyakov 6y ago

To be fair at least some of these cities aren't described as affordable by locals. Berliners are constantly complaining about the rent prices.

abraxas 6y ago
I also heard that lately. But up until the recent run up in prices it was quite the bargain for what you were getting.
siliconvalley1 6y ago
Probably true of locals of every city in the world but Berlin in particular is still very cheap relative to many western EU cities. Numbeo cost of living index has it 153rd in the world including rent and it's well below places like Houston which is probably the cheapest large top tier city in the US.

wozniacki 6y ago

The cities you list are not exactly diverse economic powerhouses in the same way even Houston is. A comparison of the "GDPs" of those cities would show that much. Also no one wants to walk through blighted or a high crime neighborhood. American cities have a lot more diversity than any of the cities you mention with income disparities separating various races and stocks of people. Homogeneity of the populaces involved is a factor often totally and wholly ignored in these comparisons of "walkable and affordable" cities. Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. Not even remotely close to the extent we encounter in America. Like I said this metric should be factored into these conversations.

abraxas 6y ago
Is this your long winded way of saying "I'm scared of black people"? There are plenty of very diverse races living in Europe and nobody is scared of them.
- pueblito 6y ago
  That is completely not what he said and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself for taking a sincere and thoughtful reply and twisting it to call him a racist.
  - abraxas 6y ago
    I did not call him racist so don't put words in my mouth. I said that he sounded like he was scared of Black Americans which I think is rather obvious from what he wrote. Granted I'm not an American and I have no idea how hostile race relations run in that country but I know that in most of Western Europe and in Canada most people have no issues mingling with other races and all neighborhoods are getting increasingly diverse.
crispyporkbites 6y ago
> Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. Not even remotely close to the extent we encounter in America. I don’t know what Opa Locka is like but Belfast is not a good example to compare to.
rgblambda 6y ago
>>Walking through even the ghetto-est part of Belfast may not be the same as walking through the same in Opa-locka, Miami-Dade County, Florida. There are no racial boundaries to overcome in Belfast or Budapest. I think you may have picked the worst possible example for articulating your point.

mcguire 6y ago

Upside: an apartment in Warsaw is 2114 Zloty (about $600). Downside: it's 38 sq m (410 sq ft). On the other hand, 650-1000 sq ft apartments go for 4500 Zloty ($1200), so go pack your bags now! (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109102/poland-average-rental-prices/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109102/poland-average-r...) Want to buy? 2000 Euro / sq m. (https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Poland/Price-History https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Poland/Price-Hist...) Budapest? Average apartment size in Hungary is 77 sq m. Average in Budapest is 57-65 m^2. You Forints go a long way: 2824 / sq m (~$10?!?). I'm in! (https://www.towerbudapest.com/en/property_management/news/an-average-apartment-in-budapest-costs-122-thousand-forints/676 https://www.towerbudapest.com/en/property_management/news/an...)

betaby 6y ago
I would say those are very expensive for the local salaries.
- abraxas 6y ago
  In those countries it _really_ depends what your job is. If you're a teacher or a bus driver then yes rent is too damn high. If on the other hand, you have a corporate job at a branch of a western company it's extremely cheap. Software developers in Warsaw easily make 10-20K PLN per month thus having rent costs less than a quarter of their paycheck.
  - betaby 6y ago
    Still wouldn't call that cheap percentage wise. Software developer in Montreal pays about 25-30% of the salary for 100m2 as well.
    - abraxas 6y ago
      Yeah but Monteral is frigid for 8 months in a year and has so so public transit IMO. It is in Canada though which I dearly love (but not for its weather or its cities).

kmlx 6y ago

two issues with that list: most of those cities are poor, or at least not as affluent as others. and except glasgow, none accept english speakers. and since we're doing lists, these are the most expensive cities i lived in (coincidentally some of them are the best cities in the world to live in, bar none): - sydney - tokyo - singapore - hong kong - london all top notch, all extremely expensive. moral of the story is: you get what you pay for.

ric2b 6y ago
> and except glasgow, none accept english speakers. What do you mean by don't accept? Porto and Lisbon are quite easy to get around as an English speaker, most young people are very decent at speaking English.
- kmlx 6y ago
  there is a huge difference between "getting around" and "moving to, paying taxes, establishing a company, having locals as friends, selling your product to locals". none of these can be achieved with english since they do not have it as an official language. sure, there are ways around it, but it is a huge downside, especially when things get hairy.

mamon 6y ago

Warsaw is TERRIBLE place to live. The city is ugly and dirty and always stuck in traffic (and yes, busses get stuck in traffic too), most office jobs are located in two main hubs, and it typically takes at least 30 minutes to get there by car (but then there's usually no place to park) or 45 by public transport. I'm very glad that the pandemic forced my company to go all-remote, because I was wasting a lot of time on my commute. Yes, small grocery stores are at every corner but for other things, like clothes or electronics you still have to go to a big shopping mall, at least 2-3 miles away. Oh, and did I mention all those are closed almost every Sunday? As for apartment prices even for really well paid software developer the choice is basically between buying a small (500 sqft) flat close to work, or bigger (800-1000 sqft) far away from it, with the added inconvenience of jet planes waking you up in the middle of the night, because Warsaw is stupid enough to have big international airport located near the city center. EDIT: Another thing: after more intensive rains some of the subway stations get flooded, so they are out of service for several hours. Not that there are many subway stations in Warsaw - just 34, forming one and half line