6 ms·

supermarket has never been more than 2 miles away - certainly not a 20 minute drive and it's even within biking distance I'd consider that far, far away. My w

by yason 6y ago

supermarket has never been more than 2 miles away - certainly not a 20 minute drive and it's even within biking distance I'd consider that far, far away. My walk to the nearest train station is about one mile, takes about 15 minutes to get there on foot, and that's irritatingly far, too, considering the trip is two way and repeats every day. Something like a grocery shop should be accessible within decent walking distance, a five-minute walk or so. A rule of thumb is that if something is far enough that I have to take the car in the first place I'll be incentivised to drive further away to a big supermarket/other big stores while I'm at it.

philwelch 6y ago
> A rule of thumb is that if something is far enough that I have to take the car in the first place I'll be incentivised to drive further away to a big supermarket/other big stores while I'm at it. The grocery store that’s 2 miles away is a big supermarket. The US doesn’t really do small groceries in most places.
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  The US used to have tons of small groceries everywhere. The legislative mandate for free parking everywhere has put them out of business, and many were demolished to build freeways.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Yeah, like most small stores they paid their staff less than the big supermarket, had worse selection and charged a lot more. The supermarket took over because they had better prices on better selection. It was nice to walk to the store for something you were missing that was common, but if you wanted to cook something exotic odds are they didn't have it, and so you switched most of your shopping elsewhere and mostly don't miss them.
    - hannasanarion 6y ago
      Smaller groceries means more selection, not less, because each store can specialize instead of needing to suit the average expectation of everybody in a 5 mile radius. I live in one of America's few dense cities, and there are three stores I visit often, one Kroger chain with the selection you'd expect, one latin grocery, and one asian grocery where I can get all kinds of stuff that most people in the suburbs who shop at walmart and safeway have never heard of, all within a 10 minute walk.
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        Come on, you don't have to be in one of the "few dense cities" to find an Indian, Asian, Latin, etc. grocery. I live in a city of about 100K people, and there are plenty. Or a few miles away is a city of ~70K people with others. As well as non-chain organic markets, whatever. The suburbs are adjacent; that's what suburbs are. I am in the northeast, are you a Californian or Texan?
      - bluGill 6y ago
        If they specialize they can find a niche that the large players don't cover. I have seen a few markets that were not specialists. They had the same American food selection that everyone buys (obviously in different areas the exact selection is different, but within the region none). The same name brand spaghetti sauce (but only of the 2 name brands, not the 10 in a supermarket), onions, ground beef you buy in the large supermarkets today, but at higher costs. The Kroger chain you visit killed all of the above (except for the gas station convenience stores which are a smaller version of the above)
  - philwelch 6y ago
    Yes, but now the US has tons of supermarkets everywhere.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      In the nearby major city I'm most familiar with, most of the grocery shopping you'd do would be in supermarkets--often Whole Foods some of which on the smaller side. Other than convenience stores, there are also some bakeries, produce stands, and butchers. But most of your shopping is probably going to be at supermarkets (which have parking).
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  And this is mostly because we have designed our zoning and land use policies to favor big, centralized stores over lots of small, little ones. An interesting parallel is Japan; Japan doesn't require parking with its properties, and to buy a car in Japan you have to produce proof of a parking space that you have (probably by purchasing a spot either with a property or in a lot somewhere), and the market has mostly sorted itself in favor of extremely dense networks of small shops.
binarytox1n 6y ago
American in Texas here - maybe this is a behavior encouraged by the very thing we're discussing, but going to the grocery store _every day_ is a big yikes to me. I go once a week and get everything I need for that week. Because I take my car, I can carry that amount of stuff.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- trophycase 6y ago
  It all just ties together. Going to the grocery store every day is a big yikes because you can't walk around the block to pick up fresh produce for dinner
  - refurb 6y ago
    I live a 2 min walk from a grocery store and no way in hell I’d want to go there everyday.
  - trthomps 6y ago
    Yeah, I live a block from my grocery store in SF, and I still only go 1-2 times a week unless I need something fresh for today / missing ingredient, which is rare since I plan ahead and only buy things that will last at least a few days. Living in a dense city like SF is great for somethings, but it sucks when you want to leave, and paying almost $400/month for parking isn't good either. Both lifestyles have their advantages and I think it really comes out to personal taste and choice.
- noirbot 6y ago
  Which has turned out to be a really great habit to have now that going to the grocery store regularly is pretty unsafe.
- com2kid 6y ago
  pre-covid I stopped by the grocery store almost every day to pick up whatever I wanted for dinner. Back when I lived across the street from a grocery store I'd sometimes go get food for dinner, talk a bit with guests for what we wanted for desert, then walk over and pick up whatever we'd decided on. When the grocery store is across the street it is basically an on-demand food pantry.

by yason 6y ago

philwelch 6y ago

> A rule of thumb is that if something is far enough that I have to take the car in the first place I'll be incentivised to drive further away to a big supermarket/other big stores while I'm at it. The grocery store that’s 2 miles away is a big supermarket. The US doesn’t really do small groceries in most places.

hannasanarion 6y ago
The US used to have tons of small groceries everywhere. The legislative mandate for free parking everywhere has put them out of business, and many were demolished to build freeways.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Yeah, like most small stores they paid their staff less than the big supermarket, had worse selection and charged a lot more. The supermarket took over because they had better prices on better selection. It was nice to walk to the store for something you were missing that was common, but if you wanted to cook something exotic odds are they didn't have it, and so you switched most of your shopping elsewhere and mostly don't miss them.
  - hannasanarion 6y ago
    Smaller groceries means more selection, not less, because each store can specialize instead of needing to suit the average expectation of everybody in a 5 mile radius. I live in one of America's few dense cities, and there are three stores I visit often, one Kroger chain with the selection you'd expect, one latin grocery, and one asian grocery where I can get all kinds of stuff that most people in the suburbs who shop at walmart and safeway have never heard of, all within a 10 minute walk.
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      Come on, you don't have to be in one of the "few dense cities" to find an Indian, Asian, Latin, etc. grocery. I live in a city of about 100K people, and there are plenty. Or a few miles away is a city of ~70K people with others. As well as non-chain organic markets, whatever. The suburbs are adjacent; that's what suburbs are. I am in the northeast, are you a Californian or Texan?
    - bluGill 6y ago
      If they specialize they can find a niche that the large players don't cover. I have seen a few markets that were not specialists. They had the same American food selection that everyone buys (obviously in different areas the exact selection is different, but within the region none). The same name brand spaghetti sauce (but only of the 2 name brands, not the 10 in a supermarket), onions, ground beef you buy in the large supermarkets today, but at higher costs. The Kroger chain you visit killed all of the above (except for the gas station convenience stores which are a smaller version of the above)
- philwelch 6y ago
  Yes, but now the US has tons of supermarkets everywhere.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    In the nearby major city I'm most familiar with, most of the grocery shopping you'd do would be in supermarkets--often Whole Foods some of which on the smaller side. Other than convenience stores, there are also some bakeries, produce stands, and butchers. But most of your shopping is probably going to be at supermarkets (which have parking).
bobthepanda 6y ago
And this is mostly because we have designed our zoning and land use policies to favor big, centralized stores over lots of small, little ones. An interesting parallel is Japan; Japan doesn't require parking with its properties, and to buy a car in Japan you have to produce proof of a parking space that you have (probably by purchasing a spot either with a property or in a lot somewhere), and the market has mostly sorted itself in favor of extremely dense networks of small shops.

binarytox1n 6y ago

American in Texas here - maybe this is a behavior encouraged by the very thing we're discussing, but going to the grocery store _every day_ is a big yikes to me. I go once a week and get everything I need for that week. Because I take my car, I can carry that amount of stuff.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
trophycase 6y ago
It all just ties together. Going to the grocery store every day is a big yikes because you can't walk around the block to pick up fresh produce for dinner
- refurb 6y ago
  I live a 2 min walk from a grocery store and no way in hell I’d want to go there everyday.
- trthomps 6y ago
  Yeah, I live a block from my grocery store in SF, and I still only go 1-2 times a week unless I need something fresh for today / missing ingredient, which is rare since I plan ahead and only buy things that will last at least a few days. Living in a dense city like SF is great for somethings, but it sucks when you want to leave, and paying almost $400/month for parking isn't good either. Both lifestyles have their advantages and I think it really comes out to personal taste and choice.
noirbot 6y ago
Which has turned out to be a really great habit to have now that going to the grocery store regularly is pretty unsafe.
com2kid 6y ago
pre-covid I stopped by the grocery store almost every day to pick up whatever I wanted for dinner. Back when I lived across the street from a grocery store I'd sometimes go get food for dinner, talk a bit with guests for what we wanted for desert, then walk over and pick up whatever we'd decided on. When the grocery store is across the street it is basically an on-demand food pantry.